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The future of the EU and the UK, post-Brexit

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Just wait until you get to try the chlorinated chicken. It is yummy! :)
     
  2. malakas

    malakas Member

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    The EU position is as follows:

    • Both the EU and UK must agree on level playing field.
    • EU offer is conditional on open, fair competition – application of EU state aid rules.
    • Disputes to be decided by European court.
    • UK financial services will no longer have passporting rights. This is a big, big area for the UK to negotiate on.
    • FTA would need to include deal on fisheries.
    • Gibraltar not part of any deal.
    Britain’s position is so at odds with the EU that even the basis for a deal has not been reached.

    • The UK says there is no need to follow the EU’s rules, no need to bind UK to agreement.
    • UK needs full legal autonomy – i.e. not bound by EU court.
    • Ready to consider fishing deal – proposes annual negotiations with EU fishing, which seems unlikely to wash with the EU.
    • Negotiating on behalf of UK family, which includes Gibraltar.
    On the plus side, the EU believes it will not need individual approval from member state parliaments for whatever deal is struck.
     
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  3. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    this is why we got Brexit
     
  4. dmoneybangbang

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    Let’s not forget UK’s poor domestic policies.
     
  5. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The EU's starting position is truly absurd. What that list communicates is that even though the UK has left the EU, the EU is still in denial about that and are trying to impose themselves in an unwelcome manner on the UK, just like always.

    The good news is that this is just their starting negotiating position and none of will be taken seriously by anyone who is in any significant way familiar with negotiations and negotiating.

    But one thing is a virtual certainty, and that is that the EU and the UK will be going to WTO rules on January 1, 2021, if the EU decides that they are insistent on probably ANY of the points that you have outlined above.

    But again, this is just posturing at this point. The games have begun.
     
  6. dmoneybangbang

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    Lol. Why should the bigger bloc compromise with the smaller bloc? Did the UK actually think they would be able to dictate terms? Need leverage.

    You populist are hilarious! You expect the world to adapt to yalls incompetence!!
     
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  7. dmoneybangbang

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    Now comes the hard part!
     
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  8. malakas

    malakas Member

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    The UK is free to choose any regulations it wants. Noone forcing them.

    They can choose what they want, and the EU chooses what they want.
    Everyone is going their way of doing things and the UK will not sell services that comprise 30% of their economy or trade their new NGO and chlorinated food to the EU.
    Simple really.

    Boris Johnson said "we choose sovereignity over the economy".
    Same way the EU is choosing animal and social welfare, health,work rights, quality of life and protection of the environment over the economy. It has already done so multiple times.

    Johnson said they want an Australia style deal...except that the EU hasn't finalised the deal with Australia. :D

    Now the Gilbraltar issue depends on Spain and if the UK wants a solution it will have to negotiate with Spain tet-a tet and give them something they want.

    So I don't see why you are so exasperated.
    We will not change ourselves in any way for a 3rd country, that has little to do with us anymore.
     
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  9. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    It is not me who is exasperated. You apparently are the one who is exasperated that the EU can no longer bully the UK with impunity, as evidenced by your silly remark suggesting that Boris Johnson said: "we choose sovereignity over the economy" when you know very well he never said any such thing.

    As for me, I am nearly jubilant. Brexit is achieved and the worst case scenario is WTO terms between the EU and the UK. Again, just like with the Withdrawal Agreement deal just ratified between the EU and the UK, I expect there will more than likely be a trade deal as well, regardless of all the histrionics that will inevitably play out between these two powers between now and the end of the year. At the very last they will very likely agree to some sort of limited trade deal, and also deals relating to security, and other matters as well.

    And if at the end they do not agree to a trade deal, that too will eventually get worked out. It will be OK.
     
  10. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Why would I want to bully the UK? Didn't I say everyone should go their own way of doing things?

    WTO rules are the best solution where noone bullies noone and everyone does what they want. If the WTO works by then of course because Trump closed it down.
    There will be tarrifs and quotas and limited access to the EU market like Australia enjoys. No services. Simple.

    As for the security there is no reason to share anything but the most essential limited security data, with someone who spent the last years leaking them to the US, and only selfishly caring about themselves by allowing serious criminals to enter the mainland.
     
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  11. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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  12. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Good article at the Telegraph about the trade negotiations and the strategy of the EU - they do not appear to have one.

    As the panicked EU goes into Brexit meltdown, Britain finally has the upper hand

    In reality, though Brussels knows that its chance to flog Britain the worst trade deal in history is slipping away. It can no longer fall back on the backstop to keep us locked in Hotel California. Boris Johnson’s thumping majority also means Britain’s "no deal" bargaining chip is back in play: a WTO Brexit would pass through Parliament reasonably comfortably. Revelations this week that, in the event of no deal, Japanese car giant Nissan would consider doubling down on the UK to boost its domestic market share, and protect its Sunderland plant, underline the inconvenient truth: Project Fear premonitions are overblown, and Britain could cope perfectly well without a trade deal.

    It is also becoming embarrassingly clear that the EU has no actual strategy. Only the clapped out choreography of a collapsing robo-bureaucracy. The most tedious of its “secret moves” is sequencing. Granted, this was how Brussels tripped up that lurching political equivalent to two left feet Theresa May. She sealed her fate when she foolishly agreed to settle Northern Ireland before penning a divorce settlement.

    But the idea that Boris Johnson’s government would fall for this again is laughable. Still the EU tries its luck: this week Mr Barnier said that before signing up to a trade deal, Britain would have to agree to the EU’s conditions - effectively trying to turn fishing and Gibraltar into the new Irish Border.

    .....

    It is increasingly clear that Brussels is the new Theresa May of these negotiations. And it is finally heading for a rude awakening.

    {More at the link or here}​

    The budget impact from the UK's withdrawal is already being felt, as the EU Parliament is considering now where the cuts will be made, and everyone is pushing back in a shocked state of alarm. Michael Barnier is openly pitching a 'Limited time offer' to the UK that if they effectively submit to being one of their vassal states, then they will be given access to the EU market, in exchange for unlimited fishing privileges in UK waters, enormous military and defense contributions by the UK to the EU, unrestricted right of free movement, blah, blah, blah.

    The UK on the other hand is moving full speed ahead to negotiate trade deals with the US, Japan, Australia and New Zealand, with a long list of others in the queue waiting for their turn. Boris Johnson has an 80 seat margin in the parliament, who will easily support WTO terms with the EU on trade, if it comes to that. And aside from primarily just the ability to lower tariffs on trade with the EU, there does not appear to be all that much that the UK wants or needs from this.

    The EU is in a tough spot here. If Boris Johnson holds his nerve, as Theresa May was clearly unable to do, then the UK is likely to come out of this with roughly what it wants and the EU is going to be in even a tougher spot than they are right now. It looks like the walls might be starting to close in on the EU here. Too soon to say for sure, but we will see.
     
  13. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  14. dmoneybangbang

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    Brexit punishment clause: Leaked document shows exactly how EU plan to CRIPPLE UK trade


    Look at the UK's biggest trading partners.... Talking about deals lined up with Australia and New Zealand are laughable. The EU is by far the UK's largest trading partner and then the US, both much larger.
     
    #2334 dmoneybangbang, Feb 8, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  15. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Disturbing news for the "United" Kingdom.

    Sinn Feinn the political wing of IRA, won the Irish elections. Now they are in power in both sides of the border.

    One step closer to reunification.
     
  16. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Boris Johnson is proposing building a bridge between Scotland and Ireland. That could make this interesting.
     
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  17. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Bat **** crazy. The waters in the Irish channel are of the most deep in the world. He has made this crazy proposal many years ago and kept repeating it over the years even when professional engineers were telling him it's practically unfeasible.
     
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  18. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  19. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  20. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Boris Johnson has hired a Nazi as his adviser and refuses to sack him or to condemn him.

    Absolutely disgraceful.

    Has the UK come to this where an outspoken Nazi is the Prime Minister's advisor?
     
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