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The Formal Impeachment Inquiry of Trump

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by RESINator, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Censure may have been cleaner, but I don't think it would have been the least bit damaging to Trump. I think Trump would have bragged about it and used it as ammo to cry witch hunt with the added effectiveness saying that if he had done something truly wrong, the Dems would have tried to impeach him.

    I think the general populace would have paid little to no attention to a slap on the wrist measure.

    I'll be totally honest, that it is not based on anything other than past congressional censures of its own members.
     
  2. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Haters go home
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    nope, you may be exactly right about that. but we'll never know.
     
  3. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    If the House impeaches and the Senate does not convict, the House can censure which opens the door to Emoluments, Mueller Report, Obstruction of Justice, Helsinki, Putin, etc.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  4. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast
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    I mean this in the nicest possible way, but what the **** is wrong with you? That's a bizarre position to take in this day and age.
     
  5. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Haters go home
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    I have eutrapelia, a rare genetic disorder. but don't worry, it's rarely fatal.
     
  6. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member
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    For certain. And I understand it. People told them he was corrupt. Heck... Hillary Clinton told people he was corrupt (and trump supporters hate Hillary more). Yet, here we are. And no one likes to be told "I told you so." No one likes to be told "you were wrong". Especially when being told by "those people." So they double down. No matter how much worse it makes it. No matter how much worse it makes them look. No matter how much worse it makes the country.
     
    Pbev99, JeffB, B-Bob and 2 others like this.
  7. mick fry

    mick fry Member

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  8. mick fry

    mick fry Member

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    And the majority of the people on here have HUAD which is incurable but not contagious to those with common sense.
    Head Up Ass Disease
     
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  9. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Was Levin still talking about the whistleblower? LOL

    He's only 3 weeks behind. Maybe he'll be able to catch up before too long.
     
  10. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member
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    The things these guys make up to avoid answering to the American people...

     
  11. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    Where are the Republican's with honor? With backbone? Don't they know this will 100% flip on them - very soon, that all these elements of ignoring the constitution will come up when the are in the minority?

    DD
     
  12. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Flip on them how? Who do the democrats have in line to take over this mess? Instead of blaming Republicans, as a moderate I blame the whole fkin 2 party system. We're left with a shitty president and even a shitter crop of candidates. Theres not a single Independent thats excited for any of the **** show candidates that the Democrats are throwing out there. You all had 4 years to find a candidate and the best they have is Warren and Bloomberg?

    What a **** show of a time we live in.
     
  13. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
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    Eh, I hear your exasperation, but I also don't think you've really done a deep dive on all two hundred dem candidates. Several of them are a moderate's dream -- and yes, those aren't the ones leading the pack, etc, but it's disingenuous to say they're all equally horrible or all equally unlikable to an independent. Sorry.

    But definitely a shitshow of a time to be alive. Agree on that!
     
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  14. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    It is NOT equivalent, the Democrats resign like Al Franken etc, the Republicans just flat out lie about it - while I agree there are poor actors on both sides, the percentages are not close the GOP has jumped the shark into complete bought and paid for....

    DD
     
  15. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    Lol this is your excuse for treason?
     
  16. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    I dislike the republicans but the one candidate that intrigued me right now is this guy.

    [​IMG]

    Too bad Al Franklin is no longer in the picture. He would have been the perfect candidate
     
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  17. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

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    Really? You're citing this guy, the clown from "It"? He makes Rush Limbaugh look like Lawrence O'Donnell.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  18. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

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    "They are? Oh............Well, as of now they're on double secret probation!!"

    (Parenthetically, Natasha Bertrand = schwiiiiiiiiiing.)
     
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  19. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Haters go home
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    as luck would have it

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/11/09/the_limits_of_impeachment_141699.html

    The Limits of Impeachment
    COMMENTARY
    By G. Terry Madonna & Michael Young
    November 09, 2019

    Impeachment is quintessentially a political process – as the swarming hordes on both sides of the aisle remind us ad nauseam. It’s become a national legal pageant as well, performed by a cascading convergence of Washington lawyers now involved in every aspect of the unfolding drama.

    Impeachment’s most important function, however, is not merely political or even legal, but rather it serves as a vehicle for national catharsis – filling a need that bubbles up at exactly the time faith in our major institutions is melting down.

    Impeachment allows us to express the fury, resentment, and angst of national crisis at a time when the system offers no other way to do it. And it achieves this without long-term damage to the basic tenets of democracy. Impeachment is our national steam valve, a veritable escape hatch for volatile and explosive political forces we are not yet ready to confront.

    This is not an argument that impeachment carries no political consequences or legal implications. Its political consequences are profound while its legal implications are enshrined in the very framework of the Constitution’s system of checks and balances as well as the separation of powers.

    But impeachment is much more than a political process wrapped in a legal framework. It is a unique mechanism allowing us to work through seemingly insoluble issues that confront us without actually making them worse. The Constitution’s impeachment provisions, originally designed to be a critical bulwark against tyranny, have become a much-needed coping mechanism.

    We know it because we have impeached two presidents, and we removed neither of them from office. (A third, Richard Nixon, resigned before he would have been impeached, which would have been followed by almost certain conviction in the Senate.)

    Paraphrasing Shakespeare, we can say that impeachment “struts and frets [its] hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale… full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

    Well, maybe not quite signifying nothing. But the fiction that action is really being taken is actually helpful. No, it’s not what the Constitution anticipated, it’s not what our politicians pretend they are doing, and it’s not what the public thinks is happening. Nonetheless, it serves a crucial role.

    When it comes to impeachment, the House proposes and the Senate disposes – and its disposition has always been the same. Those same “not guilty” words likely will be spoken again for Trump in 2019 or early 2020.

    Historically, the Senate eschews removing a president. That is not going to change. The current impeachment process will not end Trump’s presidency. Future impeachments, if any, seem unlikely to disrupt that pattern.

    Should we then amend the Constitution, perhaps abolish impeachment and seek other remedies for controversial presidential behavior? We could. There are alternatives to impeachment. Recall is used in a few states for governors and other officials; shorter terms address the same purpose; and the 25th Amendment was aimed in that direction.

    Censure is an option, one supposes. But, jettisoning impeachment would remove a safety valve that has served us, not perfectly, but well enough.

    A more realistic goal is to realize what impeachment is -- and is not -- in our political system, and to cherish its strengths while being aware of its limits. Donald Trump will not be removed, barring something highly unusual, by the current process just as Bill Clinton and Andrew Johnson were not removed. But the country will be galvanized by the process for the increasingly urgent and rapidly approaching 2020 election.

    And that 2020 election will cast Trump’s fate just as the nation’s previous 58 presidential elections have done. In a democracy, presidents are chosen by the people in an election; if removed, that should also happen by election. Impeachment can facilitate that process. It can’t replace it.

    G. Terry Madonna is director of the Center for Politics and Public Affairs at Franklin & Marshall College, director of the F&M Poll, and a professor of public affairs at the college.

     
  20. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    This is actually a pretty accurate take. Impeachment in this case more than anything is documenting the case of Donald Trump as president so we as a country learn was cannot be accepted going forward in our government.

    It’s a scarlet letter for Trump yes, but in regards to elections in the future, the articles of impeachment will be a living breathing document used to describe potential candidates that fit the profile of someone without morality like Trump who will use his power to corrupt and abuse the system. It serves as a check to remind people how one election with the wrong person can completely alter our democracy and how easy it is to slip to autocracy. Trump almost got away with it in this case. Zelensky was ready to go on CNN and announce a fake investigation so he could get military support.

    Impeachment is more than venting, but I get the sentiment here. It’s about documenting the truth about a presidents ability to abuse his powers and communicating that to the American people to make sure they make better decisions at the ballot box next time.

    But the fact that it has only led to one president removed from office (Nixon didn’t have the votes so he would have been removed) shouldn’t discount how it could be affective in the future for full removal.

    No I don’t think Trump will be removed in this case but I do believe conviction in the Senate is a high possibility. Romney,Murkowski, Collins, Gardner, Senema, Manchin. If they all vote to convict that about does it. He’s then pronounced guilty by John Roberts and that’s a massive massive scarlet letter Trump has to wear even though he won’t be removed with their votes. Trump might vacate the office just to avoid that conviction. I think the author here is deeply discounting how it easily could be a tool used for removal even in this case. We just don’t have many examples to go off of so we really just don’t know. But Trump’s non removal is far from guaranteed.
     
    #1120 dobro1229, Nov 9, 2019 at 6:41 AM
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019 at 6:50 AM
    RayRay10 likes this.
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