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The difference between Harden and superstars

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Senator, May 12, 2019.

  1. CCity Zero

    CCity Zero Member

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    Sorry, this is going to scar Giannis forever it's over, a la Nick "The Brick" Anderson /s


    but... "it's all his fault!!", let's make more silly comparisons, Harden was choking in the Finals at the age of 23, Giannis couldn't even make it out of the East to make the Finals... he (Harden) was the 6th man though, does that still count?

    Note I'm not serious on any of this.
     
  2. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

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    I am. Durant may be great in some fans but to me hes a pussy btch that had to join the team that whoop his ass to get a ring.

    Harden now is a lot different than thunder harden. Durant is still dominant but he a pusssy asss snake.
     
  3. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

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    If anyone is interested in actual numbers, here's the Clutch stats for various series in this year's playoffs.

    These particular numbers are the TS% in the last 2 minutes of regulation and their team ahead or behind by 5 or less points.

    Curry: vs Clips : 75% , vs Rockets: 80.8% , vs Blazers: 0%

    Durant: vs Clips: 0%, vs Rockets: 29.6%

    Leonard: vs Magic: 71.7%, vs 76ers: 51.5% , vs Bucks: 40.1%

    Harden: vs Jazz: 75% , vs Warriors: 58.6%

    Lillard: vs Thunder: 119.7% , vs Nuggets: 51.2% , vs GSW: 46.2%

    I'm not including Giannis' numbers because basically, he doesn't shoot in clutch situations. Over their 3 rounds of the playoffs, he attempted no shots in the final two minutes of the game and the score within 5 points. He did hit one FT though.

    Curry was really good at end of games in the first two rounds of the playoffs. Even games where he's shot terribly for the majority of the game, he's been good at the end. Against the Blazers, he was 0-5 in the clutch.

    Durant didn't do much in clutch time either series.

    Leonard was great in the first round but not too good in the clutch in the next two rounds.

    Harden was great vs Utah and very good vs the Warriors. He was efficient in the clutch both series.

    Lillard was unconcious vs OKC and then fell off the next two rounds.

    Here's a couple more from a Houston perspective

    CP3: vs Utah: 34.7% , vs Warriors: 38.7%

    Gordon: vs Utah : 0% , vs Warriors : 34.7%

    Here's the link to the Rockets vs GSW. You can play with it to change time remaining, point differential, team or opponent to see other scenarios or matchups.

    https://stats.nba.com/players/clutc...nentTeamID=1610612744&GameSegment=Second Half


    Overall, Harden was quite efficient in clutch situations in both series. This year he had an efficient series vs GSW averaging 35pts/gm with a TS% of 60% and 58.6% in clutch situations (criteria as specified above). The Rockets had a total of 8 games that met the above criteria to be classified as "clutch" situations. Over those 8 games, Harden had a total of 2 turnovers during clutch time.

    Personally, I'm more concerned about CP3 and Gordon's inefficiency in clutch situations. Harden mostly made the correct choices down the sretch, when he was doubled or tripled he found the open man. If we can't hit those shots, then it's going to be tough to win.

    If you're the opposing coach, your number one goal is to prevent Harden from beating you. You send lots of help on him but that leaves players open. That's Houston's advantage, we can create more open shots than any other team. Of course, that advantage is minimized if we don't hit those open shots.

    Teams are always going to load up against Harden late in games. In those situations, Harden has to pass (as he did). Going 1 on 3 wouldn't be a wise decision and if he did, he's be crucified for "not trusting his teammates".

    Bottom line is that the Warriors are really good. We have the best strategy against them but there's still very little margin for error. Looking strictly at personel, we shouldn't be able to play with them yet we do. That's because of our schemes (both offensive and defensive) and Harden. We do a great job of disrupting the Warriors offense and we have played them better than anyone in the Durant era. Will we eventually beat them? Maybe we will break through or maybe they are just that much better than everyone else. Either way, the current system has allowed us to challenge them better than anyone else has been able to.

    To beat the Warriors will require that the Rockets play a near perfect series. The margin for error is so small that we can't afford to not rebound the ball for the first two games like we did this year. Likewise, we can't relax and stop playing physical with Curry and Thompson and all of a sudden allow them to get off a ton of 3 point shots as we did in game 6. Both of those things can be prevented but against a team that talented, a one or two game lapse can cost you the series.
     
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  4. treyk3

    treyk3 Contributing Member

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  5. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Seems like one of those I.D.I.O.T. posts
     
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  6. Blurr#7

    Blurr#7 Contributing Member

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    This is by far the best post I’ve read on the topic. Dead on.
     
  7. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    Harden is 5-8 vs the Durant Warriors in the playoffs.
    Rest of NBA is 5-36 vs the Durant Warriors in the playoffs.


    Some people have the emotional capacity of 3 year olds. Unfortunately it is very hard to beat an all-time great team (the best team ever?).
     
    Blurr#7, dmoneybangbang and Reeko like this.
  8. alethios

    alethios Member

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    This is spot on and explains once and for all that Harden needed more from his teammates to beat the Warriors. He was stepping up in a lot of crucial moments throughout the playoffs. The one glaring knock on Harden is his turnovers. He's a great passer but takes too many chances.
     
  9. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    Not KD, not LeBron: Kawhi Leonard is the best player on the planet

    https://theundefeated.com/features/...eiKn8wrwm_1FHg6T2Ga-iUR1ju6JkoK0cHpt6kM1condM

    "Leonard also is better than the iso genius James Harden, whose playoff fadeaways and indifference to playing defense bounce him from the best player conversation. Leonard probably made more consequential plays in these playoffs than Harden has in his whole career. We never got to see Leonard’s full offensive talent when he was with San Antonio because of the Spurs’ franchisewide allergy to individual glorification. Now with unconditional freedom, Leonard is killing dudes in isolation (like Harden), pounding and rocking the basketball (like Harden) before blowing past defenders or hitting step-back 3s (like Harden). Just ask Brook Lopez."
     
  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Knee jerk recency bias
     
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  11. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

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    Yes, there are many articles based on incorrect facts. This is just another one.

    In the playoffs, Harden ran ISO 15 times per game while Leonard ISO'd 5 times per game. Despite the much larger volume, Harden was still more effective in ISO (Harden 1.04 PPP, Leonard 0.92 PPP).

    Bottom line, Harden was very good in the playoffs this year, especially against GSW. He was efficient (60% TS%) vs GS and still scored 35/game. He had almost double the assists. Leonard isn't ISOing that much and in clutch situations when he has ISO'd he hasn't been good in either of the series vs Philly or Mil..

    Leonard is good but he's not killing anyone in ISO. So far in the playoffs, he's scoring a whopping 4.6 pts/game in ISO. You can't compare that to Harden who scored 15.6 per game in ISO and did it more efficiently than Leonard.
     
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  12. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    @solid mentioned this. there is a point here despite what you posted @aelliott
     
  13. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    LMAOOOOO i read OP mention Giannis as a closer or brighter star than Harden and I got a good chuckle and avoided 17 pages of drivel. Nice Job!
     
  14. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    I do not agree with his point either.
     
  15. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance
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    @aelliott is an elite ClutchFans poster. Quality stuff as always.

     
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  16. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    it refers to two different things
     
  17. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    I mean I see what hes saying, but I feel like as close as this series was, all of Harden's points seemed pretty consequential to me. I know you didnt like what he did at the end of game 5(i could show you a video on that if you want) and at the end of game 6, I was disappointed too but I think Harden had a pretty good series.
     
  18. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    I wasn't as disappointed in what he did in game 5 compared to game 6.
     
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  19. Asian Sensation

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    33 assists and 23 turnovers. We had no chance. And you dummies want CP3 gone so a guy that’s led the league in TO’s 4/5 years and 5/7 years can “play pg”.
     
  20. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Is that all you're going to use man, youve made that same argument many times and its been refuted. Really, how close every game was in the Rockets-Warriors series say differently. I dont want CP gone. But Im also attached to our players.
     
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