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the Chris Carter thread

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by awc713, Jul 3, 2015.

  1. awc713

    awc713 Member

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    We need to discuss the white elephant in the room. Or, the white elephant in our lineup. With Springer down, production from the 1B slot is more imperative than ever.

    CC has since batted .167/.200 in the past week, .175/.242 in the past two, and .201/.336 over the past month. He has 3, 4, and 7 HRs in those time spans. And although his power is undeniable, what worries me is that a good portion of his HRs come in non-clutch/not needed situations (ex. 8-4W @COL, 10-0W vSEA).

    For how long can we hold onto this act? CC does not seem to be improving. We have a couple options:

    1.) Forge ahead. We're 14 games over .500. Pray for CC to go bonkers in the second half again. And if he doesn't, hope that our young OF depth + Singleton/Gattis can continue to overcast CC's ineptness.

    2.) Replace CC.

    2a.) From within. I think this is the most likely solution. We hand his a number of CC's at bats to Lowrie/ Singleton. It would be ideal if Gattis could play 1B. Perhaps we try to develop him into a 1B over the offseason?

    2b.) Via trade. This wholly depends on whether HOU sees Singleton as the legitimate answer to our longterm 1B issue. I personally do not think he is (his stubbornness to always pull the ball does not generally bode well).

    3.) I doubt this would ever happen, but I think a trip to Fresno would be best for CC. Let him regain some confidence and and get a string of good at bats.

    I also know this is a minority opinion, but I'd love to trade for an established 1B now, namely Joey Votto. We have the farm depth to force CIN to eat most of his huge contract. I think Votto provides the balance this lineup so separately needs as it forges into playoff contention. He's a .476 hitter @Minute Maid Park from 2012-2015. I'd hesitate to move Reed, but I would trade Singleton and a couple pieces in a heartbeat.
     
  2. YaosDirtyStache

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    Maybe I am missing something here but Chris Carter isnt white.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. Hank McDowell

    Hank McDowell Member

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    I've been saying for a while that I don't think having Carter and Valbuena in the same lineup is sustainable. Honestly, I am amazed at how well the Astros have done with them both starting, but I still just don't see how it can work long term. You can afford one or the other, but not both. Something will have to give sooner or later, and my guess is that it will be with Carter. If he doesn't go on a tear soon, I think they will be forced to address the first base situation one way or another.
     
  4. thesonofsam

    thesonofsam Member

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    Is it just me or does his swing seem to be so slow this year. It looks like he is not even trying half of the time. I am just so tired of his solo homers. I am ready for a heavy dose on Singleton because I just can't stand to see Carter be so ineffective at the plate anymore.
     
  5. Zacatecas

    Zacatecas Member

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    Well Singleton was called up with a purpose. And that is to replace Carter.

    I think that MLB is onto Jeff Luhnow, and he wasnt getting the value he was looking for in his guys in trade talks. So he probably is going to let them duke it out in the field. I like it. You dont have to always take one or the other. And if they lose more trade value down the road, so be it. Competition can be a very useful tool, and I am glad the Astros are keeping their chips for themselves.

    Carter has value. Luhnow knows it. Carter's agent knows it. The only one who may not truly appreciate his talent is Carter because he is underperforming. Luhnow has his math Algorithms, which project Carter doing better. Hinch is trying to keep the pressure off him. Will the real Chris Carter talent wilter or finally mature to his potential?

    For everyone dishing Carter, he has all star potential. Luhnow knows that, and the Astros are not going to give him away for anything but their perceived value. But also the Astros are not going to sit on their hands and wait on Carter to figure out his confidence.
     
  6. benchmoochie

    benchmoochie Contributing Member

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    doesnt carter always have some crazy second half showing?
     
  7. sealclubber1016

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    3 staight years Carter has reached a good ops by years end. He has taken wildly diffent paths to get to those numbers, but he has gotten there.

    Imo if we were gonna dump Carter the off-season was the time to do it. Once you've decided to keep him it's best to just stay on the roller coaster all year, not hop off at a low point.
     
  8. baubo

    baubo Member

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    Both Ludnow and Morey seem to adhere to the same concept of looking at the process rather than result. Morey wants the Rockets shooting 3s and Ludnow wants the Astros hitting homers. Both plays in their respective sports are both the most rewarding but also have the smallest chance of success. And it looks like both methodologies drive fans crazy even though the method has netted great results.

    Can the Astros upgrade over Carter? Of course, because overall he's pretty mediocre and below average for a 1B/DH/LF hitting position. But is it an area of concern where they absolutely must upgrade? I'd rather they use their chips on a starting pitcher instead.
     
  9. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    He's either going to be a huge strength or a huge liability in short-series/playoff situations... but he's an asset over 162 games.
     
  10. roxallways

    roxallways Member
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    The team can't afford to keep playing Carter. Need to give Singleton a long look to make sure he has what it takes. If not, platoon Lowrie and Valbuena with a start mixed in for Marwin at first. I'm sick of Carter at this point. I wouldn't mind if they cut him. The Astros could put up with him when they were bad but he's an overall negative player (too many strikeouts, bad fielding, low average, etc.) Carter reminds me of Adam Dunn, a big power, high strike out, low average guy. Most of the teams Dunn was an everyday player on were bad.
     
  11. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    Except that the team Carter plays on is really good

    With Carter playing
     
  12. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    That also includes a team with a healthy Springer... by far the most important offensive/defensive piece besides Correa.

    You can hide Carter, and his streakiness, if you're surrounded by a lot of consistency/production (which was what was set to happen with a Springer-Altuve-Correa 1-3).

    Singleton is up here now, and should be getting the 1B opportunities against most right-handers. Also with Springer out, Gattis is unfortunately going to be in LF more... which allows Carter to DH some.
     
  13. roxallways

    roxallways Member
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    This is definitely the main reason Carter can't continue to be an everyday player on this team. With him being an overall negative player, not enough other consistent bats currently playing every day to offset him. Would love to see how Lowrie coming back can help out. If he is anywhere close to how he was before getting hurt, that can definitely help. In the meantime, the team needs to give Singleton a longer look.
     
  14. sealclubber1016

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    Tucker has been very bad recently. You have to evaluate offensive value vs. defensive cost, and at this point I think Gattis should be starting most games in LF with Springer out.

    I've been on record many times in saying that Carter is a roller coaster that will eventually get his numbers. I don't like his inconsistency, but there are no better options. He should still start 80% of the games right now IMO.

    Singleton and Tucker should be platooning that 3rd spot. Tucker starts occasionaly in LF with Gattis moving to DH, Singleton starts some at 1B with Carter moving to DH. Hopefully one of them gets going and commands the starting job.
     
  15. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Chris Carter is the new Matt Schaub... no matter what happens, good or bad, he's going to be a lightning rod of attention (and, for the most part, disgust).

    The Astros are confounding, especially to older fans who grew up on the Triple Crown stats. Carter, Gattis and Valbuena really challenge more traditional ideas.

    Carter's issues, I think, are two-fold: 1) he strikes out *a lot*, which is more noticeable to the average fan (and *is* an issue); 2) his value drops significantly if he’s not hitting HRs, which are definitely down this year (on pace for as many as 10 fewer than last year). He's walking more this year, which is great - but he can't sustain a slugging % that closer to .400 than it is .500.

    Gattis has an OB% of .272; he's on pace to walk roughly 25 times, which is awful. And he's a defensive liability, frankly. But..... he leads the team in RsBI so there's a perception he's having a better year than Carter – but I think that's fairly debatable. He's slugging decently (buoyed by an outlying 4 triples) - but I think he's an issue, too.

    I struggle to wrap my head around Carter/Gattis/Valbuena all being in the line-up; it feels like 3 redundant hitters who are (mostly) mediocre. Lowrie will hopefully balance Valbuena when he returns. It'd be great if Singleton could balance Carter but he still looks woefully lost, unfortunately.

    The bottom line, I think, is that this offense- unless it’s all clicking – is probably horribly constructed to try and make a move in the postseason. But, frankly, I wouldn’t think it was built for the regular season, either, so… what do I know?

    Best to just sit back and enjoy the ride.
     
  16. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Last year was the only time where he struggled mightily... only to recover via a torrid hot streak.

    In 2013, he was consistent for the year (with a poor average, lots of K's, but consistent enough power... no major awful dry spell like the last two years).

    2012 was basically a partial season for him (only 67 games), but it did feature "good" Carter for most of that stretch.

    So basically, we're all counting on him to duplicate the unexpected/improbable/unprecedented torrid hot streak from just last season alone... and we're now past the point from last season where his hot streak started (not to mention the Astros have a few more options to replace him now in the lineup with Singleton up, Gattis entrenched as either a LF or DH, Lowrie coming back, and Valbuena doing what Carter is supposed to do).
     
    #16 Nick, Jul 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  17. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Perspective... I would categorize last year as the only time he's gone on a torrid hot streak and that it was not representative of his career at all.

    In 2.5 years with Houston, here are Carter's overall numbers:
    .219/.313/.456/.769

    Here are his torrid numbers from July-August '14:
    .278/.340/.629/.969 (215 PAs)

    There is literally no part of his career that looks like those two months. And when we remove those two months from his overall numbers:
    .208/.309/.425/.734 (1,264 PAs)

    I'm not sure I've ever been more confounded by an athlete. I can't crack the Chris Carter code. He makes no sense to me on any level.
     
  18. leroy

    leroy Contributing Member
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    I hope he apologized to Correa for not picking that throw yesterday. I realize that it was in the dirt but that is a play any decent 1B should make.
     
  19. DaChamp

    DaChamp Member

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    Agree with all of this. Can't see why Carter is the target of so much disgust among Astros fans, when Gattis and Valbuena are statistically (speaking of OBP and OPS) having the same year as Carter. In fact, Marisnick had about six great weeks, but has been horrible the last six weeks at the plate. Plenty of guys to complain about, but Carter does seem to be the Matt Schaub of the position players.
     
  20. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Agreed... unlike some here, I don't "expect" him to end up posting decent numbers this season, as it would require a 2 month pace similar to what he did last year (which was unlikely/improbable/unexpected as you just showed).

    Small sample 2012 was great (for Oakland), big sample 2013 was ok to mediocre... but at least consistent.

    2014 was a true roller coaster of both bad and good.

    2015 has been more bad then good... with the difference being, this team is now trying to remain in contention, with 1B being an area that could use improvement (on both sides of the ball).

    He's already equaled days off/less starts at 1B since the Singleton call-up than he has all season... so at least it seems that Hinch will utilize other options and play the lefty/righty matchups with some more discretion if he needs to.
     
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