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Thank you 2nd Amendment

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by crash5179, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. Nook

    Nook Member

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    While I agree with the conclusion that stupid people shouldn't get guns.... the reality is that it isn't just guns. Stupid people drive cars aggressively and kill people... stupid people drink alcohol and drive and kill people..... stupid people have reckless sex and spread diseases like AIDS.... stupid people break into homes.

    Most of what the "police" part of the government does is try to limit or reign in stupid people. If guns should be illegal or limited because of stupid people, shouldn't alcohol be limited because of stupid people?

    I don't pretend to have all the answers on this issue. I tend to fall on greater requirements for gun ownership, but it isn't the only "social evil" that is killing and harming people.
     
    dmoneybangbang, Kim and Jayzers_100 like this.
  2. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member

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    You’re not wrong, but many of the things you described have social value that transcends their negative use. Vehicles for example: our daily life and economy is hinges on vehicular transportation. It’s how we do virtually everything (groceries, work, visiting loved ones). Handguns have no other purpose besides killing.

    One could argue self defense is the equalizer against harmful aggressors. I think some form of taser or non-lethal weapon can and should become an alternative for our 2nd amendment needs in the future
     
  3. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    I understand what you are saying but I disagree with your view point.

    There are lots of people that spend their weekend at gun ranges participating in competitions or training. They are also social events to meet and hangout with people that share similar interests just like hanging out at bars and drinking with buddies. Alcohol also kills something like 88,000 people a year which is significantly more than guns. I also think hunting teaches you a lot about life and death when you kill an animal and actually see where that cellophane wrapped hunk of meat comes from. Handguns are by far the biggest cause of gun fatalities in this country. You don't see politicians going after them though because they have been protected through court precedence and are widely accepted in this country. Instead they go after the scary guns like the AR-15 style weapons that account for 1-3% of gun deaths in this country. It's like finding out 2% of drunk drivers that kill someone drink Mike's Hard Lemonade and your big idea to stop drunk driving fatalities.... ban Mike's Hard Lemonade.

    Maybe in the future non-lethal weapons will be an alternative, but they aren't now. Unfortunately, the bad guys will have them too so they might use them to incapacitate you and do whatever. I have seen tasers get hung up in a pocket or shirt and not stop an attacker. Also, when I am defending myself or my family I don't want a fair fight. I am not the aggressor or criminal. If someone attacks me in my home I want to have overwhelming force to swing the odds in my favor.

    The CDC did a study on defensive use of guns. They came up with an estimate of between 500,000 to 3 million defensive uses of guns a year in this country. They decided not to publish their study because it didn't fit the anti-gun narrative.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhs...-asked-about-defensive-gun-uses/#6c3965e8299a

    I am pro-gun, but I agree with Nook on stronger regulations for gun ownership. I'm not for banning any more guns or limiting magazine capacities, but I know lots of dummies that should not have guns. Also, the mental health standards to stop gun ownership are too lax. I had a friend that went to mental hospitals a number of times and had run-ins with the police. Since he went to the hospitals voluntarily he could still walk into Academy and buy a gun. The end result was he got shot and killed in his own backyard by the Police.

    I have a total lack of faith in our government to regulate anything, let alone guns. They failed to stop several of these shootings because of their bureaucratic nonsense and inability to enforce current laws. The church shooting in TX should not have happened. The guy should have been banned from buying guns, but because the Air Force didn't upload his military criminal history he walked into a sporting goods store and bought his gun. Dylan Roof, the church shooter in Charleston, received a hold on his background check. The FBI made a half-hearted attempt to speak with local law enforcement that had dealt with him. His hold was released when it should not have been, and he bought the gun. There a several more examples.

    The problem is gun violence is not a simple issue. I see 4 main components..... suicide, inner city/gang violence, mass shootings, and accidents. Each one has a lot of complicating factors that make solutions very difficult.
     
  4. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Whoa. I actually agree with SG. The universe longer makes sense.
     
  5. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    If someone pulls a gun out because they are standing their ground against someone, does the other person than have a right to stand their ground and pull a gun on the gun puller?
     
  6. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I don't trust the general public enough for them to have ANY rights at all, but I still don't advocate stripping them of their rights.

    Suggesting that attacking other people is abhorrent and those who attack others deserve to be shot IS preserving life....or rather it's preserving the life that deserves to be preserved.
     
  7. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member

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    My point is that the difference between a schoolyard or bar fight vs. a homicide, is that in a homicide one of the parties is often carrying a gun. Is it legal for someone to assault another? No. But I have little faith in the common individual's capacity to understand the difference between "imminent severe physical harm" and just a standard altercation.

    Granted, I don't know the solution. I just know that too many people have access to guns..and the suggestion that "more good people need guns to counter the bad ones" is just a lazy response.
     
  8. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion
     
  9. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member

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    No, it's not lol
     
  10. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    It's my opinion you don't know what an opinion is.
     
  11. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    You've probably never been in a fight before but it is REALLY easy to cause "severe physical harm" in "just a standard altercation". It's really easy to hurt people really badly that's why we can't have people going around assaulting other people. I see nothing wrong with people defending themselves by shooting their attackers when they are assaulted and I don't see access to guns as a bad thing. As it stands, less than 1/3 of households in America own a gun so I disagree that too many people have access to guns. You can argue that too often the wrong people end up with them but even if we accept that, we have to keep in mind that despite media hype, it's one of the safest times to live in America over the last 100 years.
     
  12. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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  13. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Rashmon likes this.
  14. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Florida Justice says "you're welcome"

    https://www.npr.org/2019/10/10/7690...-a-black-man-in-parking-dispute-gets-20-years

     

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