Supposedly O'Brien had to be restrained from Brock...

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by EddieWasSnubbed, Mar 11, 2017.

  1. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Depends on what you consider as their baseline when Kubiak was fired. That team was regressing towards the end of their 12-4 season, and they bottomed out at 2-14. Kubiak didn't survive. Smith shouldn't have surived, but went into survival mode (sorta like he is now) and basically blamed Kubiak publicly for every move that didn't work out (keeping Schaub, etc.).

    Some have chose to ignore that year and claim this was still a SB contending-type team when BOB came. I don't live under that delusion.

    That being said, yes... I am frustrated by the lack of improvement in the QB area moreso than anybody, and they've not succeeded at executing their plan to rebuild from the lines out. At the same time, I feel the power struggle logistics of this front office has this team in just as much of a fluctuation as anything.

    BOB picks the QB's for the first 2 years and the results are less than stellar. Smith/McNair employs more of a team approach to go after Brock... and it fails specatularly.... but the flip-side of that would have been to start Savage from day one (which due to BOB's previous talent evaluation issues, and Savage's health issues, there was doubts whether that option was viable).

    In the end, Smith has out-lived the usual time frame of any NFL GM that hasn't had significant measurable success (while having some real clunkers). BOB is about at the put-up/shut-up time for most coaches as well... I don't think he survives beyond this season unless they're right in the thick of things.

    And all that dysfunction aside... they're STILL not too far away from having a team that can make some real noise. They need consistency at the line.... and a playmaker at QB (whether its Romo, Jimmy G, or some unknown candidate).
     
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  2. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Seems like we are actually pretty much in agreement then.
     
  3. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Yes, except its hard to blame anybody (including BOB) for the lack of a QB acquisition when most of the usual suspects that were pushed for (Bortles, Manziel, RG3, Lynch) have also either fizzled out or just been non-factors.

    Blaming them for not acquiring all the diamonds in the rough that every single team passed on is pure revisionist bullshit. Blaming them for not being a part of the high round draft busts that have been an epidemic in the NFL (as long as QB is the most important position) is not fair. Blaming them for Brock is entirely fair game.

    And I suppose you can blame BOB for not turning polishing some of the turds that were brought in as place-holders (or bringing them in at all).... although no real resources were poured into those acquisitions, and the end result (had they simply drafted a guy high) are most likely the same.
     
  4. JoeyTexas254

    JoeyTexas254 Member

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    Honestly if I was a coach and Brock was my Qb I would've wanted to choke Slam him so many times. He was a terrible Qb and made our coaching staff look so bad.
     
  5. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member

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    The coaching staff did a good job of making the coaching staff look bad though too. If I was a Texans offensive player, I'd want to choke slam BOB and Godsey for the play calls they kept going with.
     
  6. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Seriously. I think there is blame to go around to all of them.
     
  7. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member

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    For sure, that's usually the case when things go that poorly. Bad QB play, bad calls, bad O line play, bad route running at times, bad baby hands at times, bad RB vision at times. It was pretty much an all around train wreck last season.
     
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  8. EddieWasSnubbed

    EddieWasSnubbed Contributing Member

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    Theoretically, this offense has the ability to change any play into four to five different plays at the line, and supposedly the receivers have to be prepared to run any route in the tree on any given pass play. Or so I've heard.

    Does that change fault in the playcalling at all?


    I'm thinking at least a tiny bit. I'm curious to see the offense with someone else running it. I think O'Brien needs to do a better job adapting his offense for what he had in it, talent-level, but I think the offense will automatically be better with a different quarterback. The brief glimpses of what we got out of Savage,it did look a little better (cue the bit about Savage not throwing a touchdown pass...Aka, get your sticks out because a horse just died).

    I think part of the regression of the offense has to do with the brains orchestrating it, and heir downgrade each of the three years Obrien has been here.

    Like I said, he needs to do a better job adapting, though.
     
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  9. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member

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    Sure Savage never got the ball in the end zone, and that's a big issue, but he did look more competent running the full offense due IMO to his time in the system. That was why I had some hope that Osweiler could improve if we were stuck with him and it's why I worry about ANYONE coming in and trying to be a starter right away.

    BOB's system puts a lot on the QB and it seems like there is a hell of a learning curve. Vets would handle that a lot better than rookies or inexperienced QB's and I think we saw that with Fitz (along with him just being really smart).

    I'm in agreement that BOB has to find a better way of making his system easier to implement for guys with less experience in it while not making it awful.
     
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  10. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    It may also be true that his offense is "too" complicated. I remember there was a defensive coordinator that was like this for the Chiefs and Redkins. A lot of players talked about how his defense was so complicated that it was hard to execute because if one guy didn't make the right adjustment it ruined everything. Lots of guys simply couldn't understand it and process it.

    I think it's fair to say that's possible with OBrien as well.
     
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  11. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Well I wasn't blaming Bob for not picking every one. Was just listing the good QBs we have passed up on the past few years despite being so desperate for one.

    And it's not just that he passed up on ALL available good QBs, he also has made the QB situation much worse every year.

    1- Fitzpatrick. Ok he wasn't great but not horrible either.
    2- Hoyer and Mallet carousel. Yikes, it can't get any worse than this can it?
    3-Brock Osweiler!
     
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  12. JoeyTexas254

    JoeyTexas254 Member

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    It seems like you guys are sticking up for Brock and bashing coach BOB. Coach has had a winning record every year. Brock was just bad, the plays weren't bad play calls, Brock would miss wide open receivers that any other Qb could hit. If we get a good qb here like Romo we will when a superbowl. BOB is not the problem. You guys seen on hardnocks he is a pretty good coach just no Qb.
     
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  13. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member

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    Criticizing BOB for his shortcomings isn't "sticking up" for anyone.

    When you talk about how the team has had a winning record every year, it's true, but the ONLY reason is the defense, which means you are really giving credit to RAC and his staff rather than BOB who is more of an offense coach.....and the offense has been bad and getting worse ever since BOB rolled in.

    I get the desire to use Brock as a whipping boy and lump all of the team's woes on him, but it's kind of short sighted to do so. I mean, Gary Kubiak was able to win a SB with a team that had Brock as the best QB on the team.....so yeah, that excuse doesn't really work.

    Could BOB finally figure things out and improve the offense this season? We'll see, but as of right now, it's hard to make a case that he's doing a lot to make the team good rather than just being carried by RAC's defense.
     
  14. Nimo

    Nimo Member

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    What exactly did we see on hard knocks that says he is a good coach?

    So you know: this isn't sticking up for Brock. Everyone agrees Brock was pretty bad. But some of us think there is enough blame to go around and maybe some needs to go to the coach. Or at the very least we have reason to wonder if he is as good of an offensive coach as we used to think.

    You might not want to use the win-loss record to determine how good he is. Brock has a better win-loss record than O'Brien lol
     
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  15. JoeyTexas254

    JoeyTexas254 Member

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    But you guys realize BoB has not had a good qb yet right? That is not his fault. That is Rick Smith's fault.
     
  16. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member

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    They brought in the QB's BOB wanted them to and he couldn't do anything with them. Couldn't even get them to perform as best as they could. When you are an offensive guru, shouldn't you be able to make the offense at least decent? Like I said, Gary Kubiak won a SB with a team that had Brock Osweiler as the best QB. How many excuses are we going to make for him before this offensive guru has to deliver a league average offense? I mean, why not just make RAC the head coach if the offense is always going to be trash and being carried by the defense?
     
  17. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Contributing Member

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    As a coach, you need to be a good delegator. Bill has shown that. He has put all the right coaches in place to direct their assignments and their groups. So much so that teams are not knocking down the doors to sign them to a higher position.

    This year, he has chosen to NOT hire an offensive coordinator. A lot of criticism will fall in his lap this year and it will be justified if the offense sputters. I really dont see a vast improvement since he was calling plays his first year anyway. Ive never seen him as an offensive genius but always thought of him as a very good delegator and some of that delegation will take a toll too, since hes going to be more focused on the offense. Itll be an interesting year for sure and it will be his make or break IMO. If he does ultimately get canned, I would want a clean house sweep as well with ricky ousted together.
     
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  18. Nimo

    Nimo Member

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    I think you misspelled Godsey. You are right. It wasn't his fault. Rick Smith and OBRIEN never gave him a good QB
     
  19. Nimo

    Nimo Member

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    I agree. He is a good delegator. And aside from his temper problem, he seems like a good motivator. My questions about him are with his offense.
     
  20. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    I find it comical that so much drama is being placed on the performance, or lack there of, of Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallet, and Brock Oswelier.

    As if any of those 4 are a juggernaut waiting to happen... and were simply held back by BOB's coaching.

    Sure, you want to crucify BOB for acquiring the first 3 (which cost the Texans nothing, and didn't prevent them from getting anybody else), fine... and that's probably what led to the overpay for Osweiler, which BOB had no choice but to be fully on board for.

    In the end, both Smith and BOB somehow still have jobs, and the latter probably wouldn't be out of work very long if he was let go.

    Smith has survived a 6-10 season where he was on board with starting a rookie secondary, and a 2-14 season fresh off the amazing off-season signing of Ed Reed. BOB's hand-picked low-risk/low-reward QB's are far less egregious.... and he at least has the command/respect of the locker room from his core guys and coaching staff.
     
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