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Superstar Guards Need a 2nd Playmaker in the Frontcourt, not in the Backcourt

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Sen89, Feb 24, 2016.

  1. Sen89

    Sen89 Member

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    If you’re a Championship team and your PG is a superstar (Steph Curry), he’s bringing the ball up the floor, he’s initiating the offense, and doing a large percentage of the ball-handling.

    If you’re a Championship team and your SG is a superstar (MJ, Kobe) he may not be bringing the ball up the floor, but he’s usually initiating the offense and doing a large percentage of the ball-handling.

    All of these guys are winners and Primary Creators.

    Now, frontcourt players are almost never Primary Creators (besides LeBron and few others), as their number one priority offensively is to be a threat from certain areas of the floor – whether that’s as a P&R finisher, a post option, a pick and pop guy or a high-post threat. Basically they require (to some extent) the Primary Creators to get them the ball in their spots, where they can go to work best.

    But they can be Secondary Creators, meaning they can create off the catch, off 1-3 dribbles, and move the ball (without being the guy who regularly initiates the offense).

    Now look at who the 2nd playmaker was for all those superstar guards:
    - Curry had PF Draymond Green, who excels in P&R with Curry, where Curry draws two defenders and Green can create easily in 4 on 3 opportunities.
    - Kobe had PF/C Pau Gasol, who exceled in the high-post and also on the P&R.
    - MJ had SF Scottie Pippen who was a great passer and ball-handler, but could create without being the primary ball-handler.

    And look at who the backcourt partner was for those superstar guards:
    - Curry has SG Klay Thompson, who’s an All-Star level player, but by and large a catch and shoot guy with solid D.
    - Kobe had PG Derek Fisher, a catch and shoot guy with great D.
    - MJ had a few PGs, most of whom were catch and shoot guys.

    ---

    We’ve been so focused on getting a playmaking PG to take the burden off of Harden, but let’s face it – no top PG will excel next to Harden. You need a guy who’s comfortable mostly playing off the ball next to Harden, and no "above-average" (top-15) PG is going to excel in that role, when they’re used to being the primary creators on their team.

    What we need is a high-level passer from the PF or SF spot. A guy who can create off the catch, and play off of Harden, whether that be a big-man who can pass out of the high-post and be a Dray-like threat off the P&R with Harden, or a wing who can create without dominating the ball, while still bringing strong D to help cover Harden's deficiencies on that end. Some guys who fit the mold (that I wish we targeted at the deadline) include Pau and Batum.

    Beverley may not be a high-level starter at the PG position, but he is a very good functional fit next to Harden. You’re not going to find too many better guys who will be 3&D guys from the PG position while barely handling the ball.

    I'm a fan of Ariza's, and he's far from the problem on this team, but with him and Beverley as the two other perimeter options on our team, we're going to struggle to create, especially with our frontcourt playing Dwight (poor passer/slow decision maker), Jones, and Capela big minutes. And the fact is that our options at PG are slim, and Bev makes sense there.

    Ty Lawson was never going to succeed here because he only knows how to be a Primary Creator who initiates the offense, and can't excel as a Secondary Creator (and you have to be an off-ball threat to be one).
     
    3 people like this.
  2. macho87

    macho87 Member

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    Too bad our GM doesn't aquire better fits and just goes after superstars. Melo would have been a disaster here
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member
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    Love
    Aldridge
    Bosh
    Melo

    I think Morey is fully aware of the impact a talented 4 can have on this team.

    I'm not a Klay superfan but he's not "by and large a catch and shoot guy with solid D". He's a legitimate player that can create his own shot.
     
  4. Sen89

    Sen89 Member

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    I'm not denying that, but he fits a role where a large % of his shots are catch-and-shoot opportunities, and he leads the league by a good margin in C&S FGA.

    Basically, he doesn't handle the ball too much because he's not the primary or secondary creator on that team, and he still excels. Could he be on another team? Maybe. But that's irrelevant to the example.

    Curry needs a guy in the backcourt who can be a threat without dominating the ball, and Klay is about as good as it gets in terms of being an off-ball threat.
     
  5. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

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    We have an elite play maker, boxing out guy, intangibles guy in the front court

    DMO

    Too bad he is injured
     
  6. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member
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    In other words, he needs an All-Star caliber player. Look, I agree with you that this team needs talent but it doesn't have to be at any specific position. Positional need is almost a moot point as GSW has shown us, as more teams deploy small ball lineups, etc. We need talent. Outside of Harden, we don't have anyone in the starting five that can be considered Top 10 in the league at their respective positions and that's why we are where we are.
     
  7. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

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    Is this a joke?

    There aren't 10 better centers in this league than Dwight freaking Howard.

    Ridiculous.
     
  8. GotGame15

    GotGame15 Member

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    Parsons was that guy a few years ago :-(
     
  9. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member
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    Where would you rank him? 1-5 or 6-10?
     
  10. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    THIS is why I wanted to keep Parsons.

    DD
     
  11. basketballholic

    basketballholic Contributing Member

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    This only works if your superstar guard is either a very efficient distributor of the basketball with an A/TO ratio approaching or in excess of 2.5

    Or

    Your superstar guard goes down on the defensive end and personally gets back at least 70% of his turnovers by playing hard defense, stealing the basketball, and taking offensive changes.
     
  12. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

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    Either way he'd be top 10 right which goes against what you said. Right?

    Dwight is still a TOP 10 CENTER in this league.
     
  13. Sen89

    Sen89 Member

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    Yes, we need talent, but the point is that the most common "upgrade" that we usually discus or even target is the "2nd playmaker" next to Harden, and we usually look at PGs and PGs alone.

    The problem with "good" PGs is that they're all Primary Creators, as that's the nature of the position. None of them would work with Harden.

    And I disagree with Dwight not being top-10. That said, when we try to use him as a focal point (or even as a makeshift Secondary Creator out of the post), we fail horribly because of his terrible decision making.
    Parsons did work very well with Harden offensively, and our team O benefited from him. But as long as Harden is playing poor D, we need a plus defender at the SF spot, if not a borderline elite one, and Parsons has fallen off on that end.
     
  14. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member
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    No I want to see where you have him on your list to see how much you're overrating Dwight Howard as a player right now
     
  15. Nimo

    Nimo Member
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    Doesn't always work either. Just ask Chris Paul or Steve Nash.
     
  16. kwakmeister

    kwakmeister Contributing Member

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    He called you on your bull****. Man up to it. Dwight is easily a top 10 center.
     
  17. whiskeyred

    whiskeyred Contributing Member

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    In the summer sign Durant, get Parsons back, then Love, Melo, Lowry, Lin, Martin, Coach Walton, Strippers and Marbury
     
  18. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance
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  19. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    Dwight is no Cousins or Towns at this point, but still firmly Top 10.
     
  20. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    Tmac already said this...and yes Morey knows this..that's why he liked Bev and wanted him to improve his 3pt shot. Backcourt needs a 3 and D guy next to Harden. Lawson was more of a, what can we get for nothing that could significantly help us? Once Harden went on record and said he wanted help, Morey had to do something.

    I'm sure you would have changed your mind after he would have limped his way out of the playoffs last year and we would have ended up losing in the second or first round...
     
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