States Rights? trump weakens auto fuel efficiency standards

If only Trump was a conservative.

For my own self, freezing the efficiency standard isn't very eco-friendly, but I do think its problematic to allow California to set its own, higher standard. I don't have a problem with the feds claiming preeminence here.

 

Why? Different states have different congestion and smog issues - why wouldn't you want them to have the option to use different standards to address it? Smog problems in California would be nothing like that of any of their neighboring states due to population density.

 

I have a big problem with it. The "man" is trying to destroy decades of slow and steady progress on a host of things simply because President Obama had something to do with it, even tangentially. Mr. trump is more than a pathological liar and a corrupt fool. He is a clear and present danger to the United States, in my opinion, who should be sitting in a cell staring at iron bars.

 

Goals were far too high. Unrealistic. Squeezes working class people out of buying new more fuel efficient cars and into their older less reliable cars. 54.5 by 2025 could only be thought realistic by r****ds with no regard for the knock on effect of the price of cars and how dramatically it would change the market. Americans don't buy euro **** boxes. Average mpg is mid 20's right now.

 

if fuel efficiency is desirable, why does it need to be mandated?

might there be tradeoffs to increased fuel efficiency?

agree with OP that CA should be free to enact dumb laws

 

because we have a common market of automobiles and regulatory alignment is needed for such a market. One state cannot be allowed to set the terms for the other 50.

 

California's standards don't interfere with anything happening in the other 49 states. If you buy a car in Texas, you can still get it registered in California even if it doesn't meet their standards. Scientists recognized over 60 years ago that California's air situation required different solutions and they've been regulating air differently since the 1960's. It has not interfered with the car market anywhere else. Similarly, we have common markets in all sorts of other things, and yet states are allowed to regulate them differently - food, guns, etc.

 

Sure it does. Allowing different states to have different regulation on something as obviously federal as emissions is harmful. "49 state legal" should have never been a term. A car manufacturer either needs to make a specific equipment and software program for one state or increase price and decrease performance for all states. Either option increases prices for other states. If California wants to be involved in a common market, it might not always win on politics it wants.

 

What is interesting is that the fuel efficiency standards in CA have greatly reduced the smog problem. It works. It has actually been successful.

 

Directly no. Indirectly, yes. Manufactures are not going to produce a variant for every different regulation out there. California's regulations are felt across the country. Usually its not a bad thing.

An example is that idiotic EU cookie consent notification.

 

Lol oh so now you and Trump care about the price of cars. You guys seem to care less about the Steel tariffs that are in effect now. Also the most fuel efficient car right now is not a **** box and is not European. It is proudly American and is a damn good car. You know the company Tesla.

 

Unlike you I DO care about the price of cars for the working class. Aluminum is not currently high, and is what generally makes the bumpers, subframes, suspension components, body panels, engines and transmissions on these modern cars striving to be lightweight and fuel efficient. This increase is all much more significant than a scant increase in steel prices.

I think it is laughable to pretend to be in favor of affordable cars for the working class and then mention Tesla. Typical champagne socialist.

 

You are wrong. Steel does impact more significantly. I knew you would comeback with the aluminum is cheaper angle.

Define affordable cars for the working class so we are on the right page since you mentioned European cars.

 

You of course completely miss the point. Obama has forced the car industry to USE a ton of aluminum which is and always will be far more expensive to use than steel. The reason they are using aluminum in all those components I listed is to make the car lighter and meet the insane MPG fleet averages.

This has also mandated Start/Stop systems that require heavy duty starters, batteries and alternators. All of which are all heavier and require aluminum to offset weight. This also mandates your typical **** box having two seperate injection systems with port and direct injections. This requires clean sheet engine design along with a far more expensive and complicated fuel system. TURBOS on economy cars, not performance cars. which requires extra maintenance and greatly increases initial cost and reduces longevity.

To quibble over a slight increase in steel prices that is being used less and less in the making of the car, while at the same time advocating for the policy's that will ALWAYS increase the price no matter how the market goes is incredibly hypocritical.

It approaches satire when you mention Tesla as a working person's car. All of the changes I listed above are circa 2015-current when we are hovering in the mid 20's for average MPG. I didn't even mention insanely expensive hybrid systems and with all of that we are no where near the 54.5 that was to be required by 2025.

 

Is that paragraph from the 80's? What car uses cast iron engine block these days? LMAO

the best selling vehicle in the country has had aluminum body panels for years now.

 

There a alternatives out there such as AHSS that I mentioned earlier make up as much as 60% of today’s vehicles body structures making lighter, optimised vehicle designs that enhance safety and improve fuel efficiency.

You did not answer my question. Define affordable cars for the working class so we are on the right page since you mentioned European cars.

 

By affordable cars for the working class I mean cars that people buy to get them to their job of work reliably. It should seem quite obvious. Even the low end Focus and Cruz come with all of the engine features I mentioned. They are priced close to the rebate 200K people will get for buying luxury cars you advocate. It's great, they subsidized cars they cannot afford.

Do you think customers demanded an incredibly expensive 8 speed transmission in the F-150 or was that to meet government demands.

you can talk about steel all you want but to meet even 30 mpg fleet average steel will be used only where absolutely needed. 54.5 is well into composite territory.

 

In general, I do. As such, I didn't have a problem with CA having their own regulations. It did create manufacturing inefficiencies, but CA is a really big market, so they could do that. But I think most things should be looked at individually, and pragmatically. What are the pros and cons of continuing to allow this? I think this type of discussion is really what Trump is after, and what will happen:

It seems that really a discussion and compromise is the goal here. Not really sure what a compromise might look like, and so maybe CA and the other states dig in their heels. That's fine...and having the discussion about it is fine. I'm even fine no matter which way it turns out. I'd say lets wait and see what is discussed, hear some about what the pros and cons are, and see what the outcome is.


Which, fwiw, was mostly my perspective when CA was talking about implementing these regulations, too. We all benefit from a healthy discussion.


I would also say I wouldn't be surprised if not much changes.

 

I think most Chevy V8s are still cast iron. Simple, cheap, dependable. Lots of parts available. For that matter, probably most domestic V8s of all brands. So...most pickup and full size SUV engines, which is a good chunk of the market.


Some of the higher performance engines, like the redo of the ZL1, are aluminum. But aluminum blocks can warp...not something you really want your engine to do.