1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Sources: Morey was given the order from the Tillmans to complete this trade

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by cyberx, Jul 12, 2019.

  1. BJE

    BJE Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    42
    Anybody who can't see that the trade for Russell Westbrook was a total steal for the Rockets doesn't know basketball. We traded a 34 year old player who is declining for an 2015 MVP who is 30 years old. Westbrook is so much quicker than I ever realized and his play is totally different that Harden's. Last year we had one of the slowest paces in the NBA and now with Russ, we are near the top of the NBA. Huge kudos to whomever got Russ here. When this team comes together chemistry wise, watch out. I am so excited to have the regular season start.
     
    #421 BJE, Oct 29, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  2. MystikArkitect

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Messages:
    4,846
    Likes Received:
    4,348
    Let's be real...they would've found a way to hate on Harden still.
     
  3. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    16,213
    Likes Received:
    38,391
    Who cares if he expires a year earlier tho. He still has 2 years left on his deal after this one, and he looks washed now. Russ is clearly better at this point. If we still had CP and Harden was playing like he is now, there’s no doubt in my mind we’d be 0-3. U want Harden to continue to have to put up legendary numbers so we can have a respectable playoff seed while CP misses his 20 games and then doesn’t even bring it in the playoffs? That doesn’t make any sense to me.

    well the reality is that he got it, and it was a toxic deal viewed as worse than Westbrook’s even tho it‘a a year less...at least Russ is still a star...CP is a highly skilled, injury prone role player
     
    roslolian and BigShasta like this.
  4. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    26,219
    Likes Received:
    6,653
    I still remember when Corey Brewer shot 42% from 3 in his first 10 games as a Rocket.
     
  5. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    25,261
    Likes Received:
    30,622
    Yup, this. We can blame Tilman for not allowing the added salary. Taking away tools to help a contending team at the margins.
     
    BaselineFade, Nook and justtxyank like this.
  6. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    17,116
    Likes Received:
    5,915
    Thank them in order:
    Kawhi
    PG
    Harden
    Tilman
    Morey
     
    BigShasta likes this.
  7. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    57,160
    Likes Received:
    41,541
    I don’t get how fans turn pure speculation into “monumentally bad decision” comments.

    Makes you sound like basketballholic, quite honestly. You’re better than that.

    You’re speculating on a monumentally bad decision, by speculating that we turned down a player worth talking about, moreso than the acquisition caliber of a Chriss, Knight, Melo, MCW, Shump....see what I did there?

    Those types of guys aren’t Free because they impact flexibility in getting the real prize.

    Makes total sense to me, and I hate LTS, that that early in the season Morey would want to preserve SnT flexibility and full MLE, so your comment “only go into LT for a Iggy/etc” is consistent with not burning cap space just because you can...as the real prize becomes more complicated to get, then.

    So, we still suck finding that piece, and maybe have largely given up, but a “player for free” has impact on getting others, so isn’t “free” making a hard PASS not a monumentally bad decision.
     
    roslolian likes this.
  8. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    39,896
    Likes Received:
    32,379
    We'll just have to agree to disagree. The trade was delayed for several days and the reports came out that the Rockets were trying to expand the deal as the salary matching nature meant they could take back extra salary. Reports after came out that they weren't willing to take back salary though unless it was for an impact player.

    My point is that today you can't get an impact player without sending out one of your starters because you didn't take back salary filler then.

    If you think I'm being ridiculous on this then feel free to lump BimaThug, The Cat, Deuce, and I believe Clutch in on this as we've all basically said the same thing.

    You need salary to match for trades and we really don't have it now. That trade was an opportunity to get some salary back.

    edit: I untagged them as didn't want them to get an alert on a pointless post
     
  9. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    32,051
    Likes Received:
    30,107
    Tilman tries to take shortcuts to be cheap and beat the competition by winning the cost margins.

    I still remember him being so proud that he had his restaurants cut lemons and lines into 16 pieces into 8 and how it cut costs but not the dinning experience.

    The problem is that the Rockets are not a casino or restaurant chain. If he wants to limit napkins in the Toyota Center so be it, but that cannot carry over to the actual on the court issues. Dumping #1 picks to save money, under paying assistants and limiting the GM from transaction all have a huge effect on the court.
     
  10. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    32,051
    Likes Received:
    30,107
    The Rockets front office wanted to have salary/short contracts added to the Westbrook deal. That is part of why it wasn't officially announced.

    One of the players the Rockets were trying to add ended up being bought out by the Thunder after the Rockets ownership got cold feet.

    I didn't even hear it from someone that works for the Rockets, but someone that works for another NBA team because the Rockets were trying to bring in another team into the deal.
     
    luckyman76, Deuce and justtxyank like this.
  11. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    57,160
    Likes Received:
    41,541
    I was anti-LTS well before anyone in that list, and you. I’m very capable of evaluating the CBA options here.

    Please explain your hyperbolic Monumentally Bad Decision language here, ‘holic. Even @Deuce just reminding us he meant “at the margins.”

    This is not a Monumentally Bad Decision. Are you really lumping yourself into hyperbole like that.

    If so, please explain how added salary effects our NT-MLE and ability to SnT Shump ... *at that time*...versus our ability to move Knight, Chriss, Ryno for impact pieces, last year.

    That wasn’t “free” salary to the point of Monumentally Bad Decision. We’d merely be picking one likelihood over another...each have chances Morey would debate with his staff.
     
  12. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    39,896
    Likes Received:
    32,379
    Your post is a little disjointed which is unusual for you so I apologize if I reply to the wrong point.

    1) You are right, you were anti-LTS and on to the mismanagement of assets before I was.
    2) Yes, I'm sure you are capable.
    3) I'm not sure what it is about me that has offended you so much that you feel the need to "come at me" and to insult me with the "holic" tag. I don't think I've ever been a jerk to you so I won't offer up any half hearted apology. Whatever it is, you should get over it.
    4) Yes, I will stick to "monumentally bad" to describe it. You can think it's not a big deal and that's ok. That's called a difference of opinion. I think it was a huge mistake not to take back salary filler and you don't. Cool. Why do we have to respond to each other further?
     
    Invisible Fan, luckyman76 and Nook like this.
  13. ISOBall

    ISOBall Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    2,889
    Likes Received:
    1,961
    I won't remember you at all when we hoist the Larry this summer
     
  14. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    32,051
    Likes Received:
    30,107
    What I am saying is that the Rockets front office wanted to take on a short term contract (or contracts) from the Thunder in the Westbrook deal for the presumed purpose of using them in trade for either salary matching reasons or to take on a more desirable player but one with a longer contract.

    That doesn't even take into account the draft considerations the Rockets would have received (in fairness my understanding is that it was not a #1).

    The fact that the front office wanted to do this, tells me that they believed it was a smart tactical decision.

    The reason it did not happen was ownership.

    You can draw your own conclusions as to why ownership got cold feet.
     
  15. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    57,160
    Likes Received:
    41,541
    So, you are unable to make a CBA comparison to how that salary would affect other options...nor do you want to comment on how much the same type of salary play helped us last year ... Chriss and Knight

    Instead, you’re actually going to call this a Monumentally Bad Decision ... just because you heard Morey evaluated the possibility and benefits of adding salary ... presumably favoring Chriss, Knight type salary assets (yet, again) over maximizing NT-MLE and keeping Shump SnT in his pocket.

    The two options are not that significantly different to call it a Monumentally Bad Decision.
     
  16. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    25,261
    Likes Received:
    30,622
    // When things get heated around here and people get dragged by being compared to _holic.

    LOL.
     
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    32,051
    Likes Received:
    30,107
    So....... it really isn't worth it to me.

    I chimed in with what I know are facts concerning the Rockets efforts to add salary in the Westbrook deal.

    If you want to turn this into a definitive treatise on whether the Rockets should have added Patrick Patterson and Denzel Valentine, feel free.
     
  18. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    57,160
    Likes Received:
    41,541
    Yet another hyperbole. Do you really think you could offend me with b-ball talk?

    It was a move at the margins, at best, no more than Chriss and Knight as trade asset was ... and we weren’t option-less this year like last. People who use Monumentally Bad Decision language choose narrative over discussion.

    That’s what ‘holic does. You’re a narrative machine bro, and I’m sure you’re not offended. Do I really need to watch my GARM memes with a D&D Moderator for fear he might take offense.
     
  19. BallSoHarden

    BallSoHarden Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    970
    I believe there is a small probability that Les sold the Rockets with the intention to buy them back at a lower price. You rarely see a trophy asset that actually turns a profit go for sale unless the seller is forced to (@ Clippers), if Tillman has a ton of debt on the team and Les financed a portion, then this is a complete alpha move and his way back in when he defaults. It might be the reason he wanted to hold on to those trophies. If his son is wanting a player and they make a massive move that impacts future revenue, expenses, and NI. Les has done well for himself by timing the market correctly in real estate (some of these deals are public and you can see how he timed them) and in public equity markets. NBA valuations are at absurd levels relative to income. This China PR issue has already taken a significant portion of value off.
     
  20. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    39,896
    Likes Received:
    32,379
    It wasn't a move at the margins. Chriss and Knight being dumped was dumb too. It's a pattern of squandering tradeable salaries because you want the option to be under the tax. I doubted the viability of a Shump SnT from day one so yes, locking yourself into that as the only way to go get salary was a big mistake in my opinion. From the minute they did the Ryan Anderson trade I began to fear this outcome and said as much.

    And here we are with limited ways to improve the team. An extra salary in the $5+ million range would be great right now and yes, there is reason to believe we could have had one for free and chose not to because we wanted to make sure we had the option to duck the tax.

    I don't even know how to interpret your "narrative machine" dig.

    Bro.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now