Sonics are shopping murray around: a possible trade deal

It's not possible because of what the article you just posted said. The Sonics want to trade one of their bigs with a bad contract in any deal they make. They don't want another bad contract in return, and they don't want to give up Radmanovic. The salaries are also about $8 million apart.
Good idea though...

 

I know it's Rockets trade speculation, but I'd kind of like to see this thread in the NBA Dish. I'll leave that up to the admins.

Flip Murray sounds like Cuttino in that he's a terrific scorer, but with questionable shot selection. He might be a more natural passer though. However, we already have two scorers at guard in Cat and Steve and it doesn't make much sense to add another offensive-minded guard who needs the ball in his hands.

And like white lightning said, they want to get rid of a biggie and don't want to give up Radman. I'd think they'd be genuinely interested in trading one of their overpaid centers for Cato (our overpaid center), but have no interest in giving up a player of real value like Murray or Barry or Radman to do so, given Cato's contract size and limitations.

Lots of threads lately about dealing with the Sonics.

 

To add to this topic, here is what ESPN Insider said about it all.


Sonics swap? There continues to be rumblings that the Sonics are eyeing a a trade for legitimate power forward.

The Sonics have a number of tradable assets -- Brent Barry, Ronald Murray, Vladimir Radmanovic -- that they can package with over priced players -- Jerome James, Vitaly Potapenko, Calvin Booth -- to clear cap room and/or add help to that glaring hole in the paint.

The names out there who could be available -- Kenyon Martin, Shareef Abdur Rahim, Al Harrington, Kwame Brown, Antonio McDyess, Juwan Howard -- have all been mentioned in this column before.

Are the Sonics any closer to pulling the trigger on a trade? Sonics GM Rick Sund is still feeling out his options.

"What we've always said is that this is a year of exploration," Sund told the Seattle Times. "We want to see what they (Seattle's young players) can do given some real minutes. . . The worst thing we could do is move too soon"

Actually, the worst thing Sund can do is wait too long and watch the trade value of some of his players evaporate. Barry has steadily went downhill the past few weeks and is now on the injured list. Allen returns tonight and will likely cut heavily into the minutes and shots that Murray takes. While Sund remains determined to stick with the rebuilding process and keep young players in the fold, the options are plentiful at the this point.



Among possible trades that could make sense for the Sonics?



Martin and Luscious Harris for Murray, Radmanovic and James: The Nets can't afford to pay Martin, but the Sonics could. The team needs a tough bruiser in the paint and Martin would be a great fit. He'll come at a high price. Murray and Radmanovic would give the Nets some dangerous offensive weapons and James would help the hemorrhaging the Nets are experiencing in the middle.


McDyess for James, Potapenko and Murray: The Sonics get a legit power forward for a run this year. If injuries continue to be an issue, the team clears $13.5 million extra off the books this summer and gives them around $7 million to play with in free agency.


Abdur Rahim for Barry, James and Radmanovic: Abdur Rahim is just 27 years old and would be a nice fit in the Sonics up-tempo offense. While Rahim isn't the blue collar tough guy the team needs in the paint, put him on the floor with Allen, Murray and Rashard Lewis and you have a team that can run with the Mavericks.


Harrington and Jamaal Tinsley for Murray and Barry: The Pacers have a glut of forwards and need help at the point and center positions. Murray and Barry might be the combo guards the Pacers have been looking for. Harrington is the type of young athlete Sund needs to add to the front court. He's tough, a good rebounder and a better than average defender. Tinsley had a falling out with coach Rick Carlisle, but he's still one of the best young point guards in the league.


Brown and Jared Jeffries for Radmanovic and James: Brown has been a flop in Washington, but many scouts still believe that he has enough talent to be a star on the right team. The Wizards need shooting in the worst way and Radmanovic could give them a big boost. James won't be a star in the middle, but the Wizards are running pretty thin on bodies.

 

To add a Rockets slant....some ideas.....

Could the Rockets offer this to Atlanta if they have SAR on the trading block?
I would say it is similar to the "proposed" Sonics offer above.

Mobley, Cato, Moochie + 2nd round pick
for
Abdur Rahim

To sweeten it for Atlanta you could substitute the Moochie + 2nd rounder for Nachbar, but I think we should get their 2nd rounder in return in that scenario.

Francis
JJ/Pike
SAR/Nachbar/A Griffin
Taylor/SAR
Yao/Meech

It kind of saps some of our depth, but we get a quality starting forward (20ppg 8rpg) that can play the 3 and the 4, something we don't currently have. We could then add more depth via FA next summer. SAR has a big contract but it ends before Cato's or Taylor's would. And you could sign him to a reduced contract.

Could the Rockets offer this to Indiana if they have those players on the trading block? I would say it is similar to the "proposed" Sonics offer above

Mobley and Cato
For
Harrington, Tinsley, Pollard

Francis/Tinsley
JJ/Francis/Pike
Harrington/Nachbar/ A Griffin
Taylor/Harrington
Yao/Pollard

Don't have the depth problem as the trade above but dont have a player as good as SAR either. However Harrington might turn into a SAR caliber player. Plus you get a solid backup PG in Tinsley and a nice hustle player in Pollard that can play the 4 or the 5.

 

The trade scenarios mentioned all look like possibilities. But, why does ESPN call Jerome James, Vitaly Potapenko, and Calvin Booth "over priced"? All of them make near the MLE (backup Center money) and any would be more than adequate in the EC. The 4th Sonics Center used to be Drobnjac who puts up decent stats as a Clipper.

Brent Barry, Radman, Jerome James and Flip Murray works capwise for SAR. If I were the Hawks, I'd be all over that. I'd start James at C, move Ratliff to PF (a more natural position IMO), back them both up with Mohammed, move Radmanovic to SF where he belongs, play Jason Terry and Murray as a dual combo guard tandem, and back up the guards with Glover, Stephen Jackson and Barry.

SAR, Rashard and Ray Allen sound impressive on paper. What happens with a Center combo of Booth and Vitaly? And a rookie PG (Ridnour)? Be careful whay you wish for, you just might get it?

 

GATER, I am not so sure the Sonics would give up Barry, Radman, James AND Flip Murray for SAR. The article above had that deal sans Murray. I agree, if I am the Hawks I make that move for those 4 guys, but I doubt that the Sonics offer all 4.

FYI, it should be noted that Barry is a FA after this season. Who is to say that he will stay with whatever team gets him.

Clearly the Sonics have a lot of guards they can deal. Having Ronald Murray and Richie Frahm overachieve for them has given them TONS of options to make moves. Those two plus Allen, Ridnour, Daniels and Barry and they are LOADED with guards. Something has to give here.

In my opinion, Ronald Murray has "bobby jackson" written all over him. Assuming he is traded whoever gets him will have a nice 6th man off the bench. I would be surprised if Barry and Murray are Sonics after the trading deadline. To me Allen and Ridnour are the starting guards with Daniels as the 3rd guard.

 

Especially an EC Lottery team.

If I'm the Hawks, James, Radmanovic and Barry are not enough value for SAR IMO. As you stated, Barry could leave so the trade is basically Radman for Abdur-Rahim. Perhaps this is why it's in ESPN Insider and not the front page of the USA Today Sports page.

 

Fair points. Then if I am the Sonics I offer James, Radman and Murray and NOT Barry. Then move Barry to some other team for more depth.

Clearly though, the Sonics have A LOT of players they can move. The same could be said for the Pacers with their SF logjam of Artest, Harrington, Brender and Croshere. Not to mention Tinsley is 3rd in the PG depth chart.

Those seem like the teams that can make some moves before the deadline.

The Pacers just seem like an ideal trading partner for the Rockets since they have an abundance of SFs and the Rockets have no quality starting forwards.

I would not mind seeing Harrington or SAR on the Rockets if the right deal came about.

 

Deuce -
The more I think about it, the more Barry becomes very much less valuable to any team not seeking cap relief in 2004. Can Indiana even use him in their rotation? So again, Harrington for Murray?

Seattle is definitely in a position to make waves but they are also in a position to make a major failed decision locking up cap room for a few years (Rashard, Allen and SAR are all somewhat expensive...especially the latter two).

Given the range of possibilities, there is not much which would surprise me from them. In a stuperous state, I'd probably hope fro Rashrd, but we'll skip it for now...Rox trade thread mania has reached new highs lately!

 

For some reason I don't like flip murray, is he actually a good player? I haven't seen enough, I think he's too small to score night in and night out, you've seen how he disappears some days. He's no AI.

I don't know about Shareef Adbur Rahim either. How good is he against the PFs of the west? I'd have to see some tape, but I doubt he'll be much better than MoT.

 

I haven't watched Murray play yet and I wonder that his value is being exxagerated. He can score, apparently, but there's more to basketball than scoring. Remember when Sam Mack had those big scoring games and couldn't find a contract in the offseason?

 

I think the Pacers could use Barry. I still think they are looking to improve their PG play. Anderson is the starter there by default. They could use center help as well. I would not look at Barry as just cap relief after his contract is over. I think he is a solid role player that could add a lot to a team looking to add better chemistry. Clearly he would be welcome in Houston.

Barry does have value. He is a very nice combo guard that plays intelligently. If he gets traded to the right team I bet he stays there. Just depends on the situation, especially if he gets traded to a team on the rise or already in contention.

As for SAR's contract.... I dont think it is as bad as it could be. At least he is producing decent numbers (versus someone like Mo). Correct me if I am wrong but doesnt he have 2 more seasons after this one? That's not too long. It is large, but when his contract is up he wont ask for nearly that much on the next contract, plus in his last season his expiring contract will be coveted if SAR does not work out for someone.

I am not one to post a lot about possible trade scenarios....but I do like the idea of the Rockets trying to make some moves to get a quality NBA starting forward (small or power). And I think Mobley is the prime bait to get it done.

 

One more thing. Any team that the Sonics are talking to with Flip Murray or Brent Barry trades in mind to acquire FORWARD tallent the Rockets should be doing the same via talking to the same teams with offering Mobley.

 

The Sonics should sign Eddie Griffin and give us Brent Barry and Calvin Booth for Maurice Taylor or Kelvin Cato and Moochie Norris!

I wouldn't give up Mobes, Cato, and Mooch for SAR...I would give them Cato, Padgett, and a 1st rounder for SAR.

Kurt Thomas and Charlie Ward for Cato, Padgett, Moochie.

 

What'd Sam Mack score in his best year? 12 per game?

Murray is averaging 18.5 opints per contest. He's been benched for 10 games this year (that's 40% of their games so far) - yet he still ranks 21st overall in the NBA in scoring!

There is MUCH more to the game than scoring, but there are some teams out there who desperately need someone who can consistently deliver, and Murray can do that!

At 6'4 his size is a bit of an issue on defense - also his ability to defend is marginal at best (which is why he was benched) - but hey, Big Dog has made a living out of being an option on the offensive end only. I find it VERY hard to believe that Flip would have the same struggles that Sam Mack had....

 

I posted this in GARM, but could work in this thread too. Not exactly what Seattle may have in mind, but they do get quality talent in return and would be a better team, imo.

Houston trades:
PG - Steve Francis
PF - Maurice Taylor
PF/C - Kelvin Cato

Houston recieves:
SG - Ray Allen
PG - Luke Ridnour
C- Calvin Booth
C - Vitaly Potapenko

I'd do it if Seattle would.