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So who does Doggie go to now that Wagner's gone?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by redgoose, Nov 4, 2003.

  1. redgoose

    redgoose Contributing Member

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    The only team i could think of sending him to is they Yankees. They desperately need a right fielder. At the trading deadline they were looking for a RF but instead picked up A. Boone, which i would be suprised if the resigned to a large contract.

    I wouldn't expect to get much of anything for Doggie, other than a couple players to be named later.

    But the Yankees know we would do this trade to free up money for Pettite. NY knows he wants to go home to Texas, but they need pitching and contact hitting. I wouldn't exactly consider Hidalgo a contact hitter.

    Your thoughts/opinions?
     
  2. JPM0016

    JPM0016 Contributing Member

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    i just saw a clip about it on sportcenter. Jayson Stark is the 3rd or 4th guy who has now said the Astros are trying to trade Richard Hidalgo so they can make a run at Andy Pettitte.

    In regards to who we get, probably just prospects so we aren't taking on a ton of salary.
     
  3. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    This isn't about Doggie, but goes to the question of dumping out to make a run at Pettitt:

    http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/42259.htm

    'STROS MAY HAVE
    EYES ON PETTITTE

    By GEORGE KING
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Email Archives
    Print Reprint



    November 4, 2003 -- They still may not have enough money to land Andy Pettitte, but the Astros certainly have more today than they did yesterday before they dealt lefty closer Billy Wagner to the Phillies.
    While Houston owner Drayton McLane may not have enough cash to battle the Yankees for Pettitte after he files for free agency, McLane could appeal to Pettitte's desires to pitch where he lives for less than he would get from George Steinbrenner to stay in The Bronx.

    Pettitte went 21-8 with a 4.02 ERA this past season when he earned $11.5 million. He hasn't said what he would be looking for as a free agent, but elite players don't take pay cuts unless there is something enticing for them. And being near his close-knit family would be one of them for Pettitte.

    Moving Wagner, an All-Star, gets the Astros out from under the $8 million he earns next year. In 2005, there is a club option for $9 million with a $3 million buyout. So, the Astros saved themselves at least $11 million yesterday.

    "This is somewhat of a sad experience," McLane said. "He's one of our own and has developed into one of the premier players in baseball. But you move forward. We hate very much to make this decision, but it certainly helps us in giving us flexibility."

    Enough to sign Pettitte? That remains to be seen and depends on how creative the Astros can be with the latter years of a deal. One stumbling block is that Randy and Alan Hendricks, who represent Pettitte, don't get along well with the Astros' front office. Another may be that Pettitte could figure the Astros won't spend the money to consistently contend.
     
  4. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    ...and more:

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseb...309nov04,0,2749162.story?coll=ny-sports-print

    Astro Salary Dump Could Bag Pettitte

    By Ken Davidoff
    STAFF WRITER

    November 4, 2003


    When the Houston Astros traded their closer, Billy Wagner, to Philadelphia yesterday, they moved one step closer to making a serious run for Andy Pettitte.

    Wagner, 32, will make $8 million to save games for the Phillies in 2004 after he saved 44 in 47 chances this past season for the Astros. His departure means that the Astros' 2004 payroll has been reduced by $8 million, and by $9 million for luxury-tax purposes.

    With Pettitte, who won 21 games this season, making his home in the Houston area, perhaps this trade could give the Astros the room they need to work out a discount deal with the lefthander.

    Or perhaps the Astros - who received righthander Brandon Duckworth and a pair of minor-league righthanders, Taylor Buchholz and Ezequiel Astacioa, for Wagner - need a little more room.

    "Between the increases that we have coming in the multi-year contracts with players and the anticipated increases to players with salary arbitration, we're talking about a pretty significant increase [in payroll]," Astros general manager Gerry Hunsicker said yesterday. "This savings goes to pay for those increases. It's not like we've got $9 million to go and do something else with.

    "For that to happen, somebody else would probably have to go."

    That "somebody else" is obvious - outfielder Richard Hidalgo. He has $12 million coming next year and a $15-million team option (with a $2-million buyout) for 2005. It's inconceivable a team would pay so much for Hidalgo in this reduced market, but the Astros will shop him aggressively, knowing what it would mean to land someone of Pettitte's caliber.

    Pettitte has yet to file for free agency. "I wouldn't read anything into the fact that Andy hasn't filed," Randy Hendricks, one of his agents, said yesterday in an e-mail interview. The Yankees know re-signing Pettitte is their first priority of the offseason, yet they haven't moved aggressively to retain him.

    Pettitte has become disenchanted with the chaos that has surrounded the Yankees in recent years, and his best friend, Roger Clemens, is retiring. If pitching coach Mel Stottlemyre decides not to return, that would be another strike against the Yankees.

    If Pettitte leaves, he wants to work close to home, but the Texas Rangers have declared that they won't be pursuing high-profile free agents. Thus the Astros, if they can figure something out with Hidalgo, figure to be Pettitte's best chance to come home.

    Notes&Quotes: Derek Jeter's left thumb is healing well, a source familiar with the situation said, and it appears Jeter will avoid surgery on both his thumb and left shoulder ... The Yankees have offered former catcher Joe Girardi the opportunity to manage their Class-A affiliate in Tampa. Girardi, who has yet to retire, hoped to be considered as a replacement for departed bench coach Don Zimmer. Instead, Willie Randolph got that job, moving from third base to the dugout. There had been discussions about Girardi filling Luis Sojo's old spot as special-assignment coach now that Sojo has become the new first-base coach, but that opening has gone to former Tampa-based executive Rob Thomson. Girardi, who will not announce for the YES network, could opt to search for a big-league coaching job elsewhere.
     
  5. The Real Shady

    The Real Shady Contributing Member

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    So what do you think the Astros and Yankees will offer Pettite?

    I'm thinking the Astros will put up around 8-10 million per year compared to the Yankees 15 million per. I think Pettite would have a hard time turning that down.


    The Yankees will not try to trade for Hidalgo unless they lose out on Vladamir Guerro and Gary Sheffield. They already said they will be attempting to get a RF in free agency.
     
  6. redgoose

    redgoose Contributing Member

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    It appears the Astros actually know what they're doing, unlike signing Biggio to that extension.

    Even if the stros went over payroll to sign Pettite, he would put 30,000 + people in the seats just like when we had RJ for half a year. I went to every game RJ pitched in the Astrodome. With the increases in beer prices, i'm not sure if i'll be able to attend every single game Pettite pitches, but alot of people would.

    But maybe throwing in Blum or Lane would influence someone to take on Doggie. But then i have no idea who would play right field.

    Maybe Jose Cruz Jr.?

    :D
     
  7. DFW_Rockets_Fan

    DFW_Rockets_Fan Contributing Member

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    I was comfortable with trading Wagner given the salary, position and available backup plan.

    I am not as comfortable with trading Doggie. The deal would have to be sweeter than what we got for Wagner.
     
  8. redgoose

    redgoose Contributing Member

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    In a couple years you'll see we got a heck of a deal in these times of baseball. I was suprised to get anything for Wagner. But we really got a couple real good pitching prospects in return. 1 of them is projected to be a dominant closer and the other a #2 starter.

    Plus the money allows us to hold onto Oswalt and miller when they have their arbitration meetings.

    We will have to give Doggie away for nothing, who wants to take on 14 million dollars for an unpredictable outfielder with bad knees. With Wagner you know exactly what your getting.

    Then just plug in Lane in RF who has been a prospect for like 10 years now. The guy's gotta be the oldest prospect in the minors by now. He should be able to bat .270 with about 20 homeruns and play basically for free for 3-4 years if i'm correct.
     
  9. Buck Turgidson

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    Here's my 25-man roster for '04, payroll approx. $80 million:

    Lineup:
    CF - Biggio
    3B - Ensberg
    LF - Berkman
    2B - Kent
    1B - Bagwell (swap w/ Berkman vs. LHP)
    RF - Lane
    C - Ausmus
    SS - Everett

    Bench:
    OF - Colin Porter, Orlando Palmeiro (FA)
    IF - Blum, Vizcaino
    either Eric Bruntlett (IF) or Henri Stanley (OF)
    C - Chavez

    Rotation:
    Oswalt
    Pettite (FA)
    Miller
    Redding
    Hernandez/Rosario/Robertson

    Bullpen:
    Dotel
    Lidge
    Paul Quantrill (FA)/Chad Fox (FA)/Scott Sullivan (FA)
    Stone
    Gallo
    Duckworth

    Easily should be 1 of the top 3 teams in the NL.
     
  10. 4chuckie

    4chuckie Member

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    Is Andy Pettite really a big draw to fill up stadiums just because he is pitching?
    Granted he is a nice pitcher who will win 16-18 games/year but he doesn't seem to be someone who would fill a stadium.

    Don't get me wrong I think he would be a great pickup but I wouldn't expect the stadium to be more filled on nights that he pitches vs. other nights.
     
  11. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    This is sad they always trade a way good talent.
     
  12. DFW_Rockets_Fan

    DFW_Rockets_Fan Contributing Member

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    This is what scares me. How good is a prospect that has been a prospect for 10 years?
     
  13. bobrek

    bobrek Proud A$$hat Mofo
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    A far cry from 10 years. Lane was drafted in 1999 so his first full professional season was 2000. Had he not had an abdomninal injury last year he (more than likely) would have been with the team the majority of the year.

    Many folks are excited about Ensberg and he was essentially a 27/28 year old rookie this past season.

    Unless a player is a total stud coming out of college (e.g. Mark Prior), they will tend to spend 2-3 years in the minors after graduating from college. Lane's development timeline is not at all unusual.
     
  14. franchise?..NOT

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    Trade Bags. Keep "the Mutt" (Doggie). Bags still has marquee value to the Bosox or Braves. On his last legs though. Expect a steady rapid decline in production/ games played. Two more years and he is toast. Restock the minors and dump salary with a Bags trade. Maybe use money for a center fielder.

    Doggie is finally worth his salary and has a bright future.

    2005 line up.

    2b Burke
    CF Porter/FA-trade
    LF Lane
    1B Berkman
    RF Hidalgo
    3b Ensberg
    C Buck
    SS Everett

    SP
    O
    Miller
    Redding
    Hernandez
    Bucholz

    Restock minors by trading Robertson, Duckworth, Kent
     
  15. Buck Turgidson

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    There is not a market for a Jeff Bagwell trade.

    None.

    Zero.

    Sox have Ortiz/Millar, plus acquiring Bags's salary means they cannot resign Nomar.

    ATL? Doncha think they'd rather have a healthy Gary Sheffield?

    This is not fantasy baseball.
     
  16. JPM0016

    JPM0016 Contributing Member

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    as long as the astros go out and get a good starting pitcher, like an Andy Pettitte then dumping Wagner and trading Hidalgo will be worth it.

    Having Oswalt, Pettitte and Miller in the rotation along with Redding and perhaps a healthy Carlos Hernandez would do wonders for this team.
     
  17. Joshfast

    Joshfast "We're all gonna die" - Billy Sole
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    Sure there is.....

    Jeff Bagwell for Manny Ramirez.

    :D
     
  18. franchise?..NOT

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    Too bad. Keeping Hidalgo gives this team a top five RF for the next 7-10 years. Bags is done in two. Oh well!
     
  19. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    As anyone from the organization given any indication that they're moving Hidalgo?
     
  20. Buck Turgidson

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    No, that's not Gerry's style. "...looking for additional payroll flexibility" is pretty much code for "if anyone would take Hidalgo, or Bagwell for that matter I'd ship 'em outta here in a flash."

    They'll probably have to package a young arm (Duckworth/Redding/Robertson/Carlos/Rosario) to get anyone to bite on Richard, he just make waaaaay too much money for the current market. Best hope is the Yanks lose out on the Sheffield/Vlad FA sweepstakes & need to make a trade.
     
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