Follow the link and scroll down first. This article has basically everything. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28476354/how-internet-helped-crack-astros-sign-stealing-case
I know Astros fans, including myself, don't want to hear it...but the response from players, past and present, indicates what the Astros did is seen differently in their eyes than merely stealing signs.
Certainly appears so. It’s disappointing in the sense that every player from every generation knows that their teams were cheating one way or another. For all of these players that are flying above it all, I just don’t get it. If sign stealing in general was frowned upon no matter how teams did it, I wouldn’t have a problem with this uproar. Using technology for better results seems to be a natural evolution to the game. We are caught in between the purity of the sport and the where to go next with it. I’m sure many will disagree with that part of my post and I understand why. Maybe I’m blindly backing my guys in a sense, I don’t know. I just hate being the scapegoats here when a very large percentage of people including baseball knows that this is not an isolated incident. That’s one of the things that gets me...People in and around baseball know this, and yet want to bury it everywhere else and pile on.
Sign stealing is absolutely part of the game and always has been. This is different. The league sent the memo saying the use of technology to steal signs needed to stop. Crane sent emails to Luhnow and Hinch asking if they were doing it and saying they need to "cut it out" if they were. They didn't cut it out. They went even further with it. It sucks. For the last few years I would tell anyone who would listen that I thought this Astros era would be remembered similar to the Big Red Machine. But they won't be remembered that way, whether that's fair or not. Lots of guys did steroids and cheated...but what's the first thing you think of when you hear Mark McGwire's name? I think that's going to be the epitaph for this Astros era. Some won't care. I will. It was a self-inflicted wound, entirely. They built a great team and then decided they needed to go to great lengths to find new and creative ways to cheat, even after MLB sent the memo. It sucks.
We should all look to the Yankees and Derek Jeter in these troubled times. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28503461/why-baseball-needs-derek-jeter-today-much-ever
Oh I absolutely care, but mostly because of how this team will be remembered. They were too arrogant to stop. I don’t feel like they needed to do this, and yes it sucks. Only way out of it is to win one or two without a scandal.
Pedro Martinez's thoughts on Fiers. https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1931930/pedro-martinez-fiers-broke-the-rules-in-the-clubhouse
Whatever the Astros are guilty of, they are guilty of. A snitch revealing it doesnt change that fact. However there's a reason society hates snitches. I would never be OK with a player who would be willing to completely throw his teammates under the bus years after the fact like this. He wasn't even being threatened to do so, he just casually obliterated them.
Eh, much like Steroids and players complaining, I feel a lot of hypocrisy out there. I think most teams broke the rules and cheated. I do think the Astros went farther than most, but way too many players have admitted that use of technology to decode signs has been used for a long-time across baseball. The fact that the Astros didn't stop after the memo is why they deserved a strong punishment. I'm very disappointed in them. More than anything though it pisses me off because the stats say it wasn't overly beneficial to the team and that it was setup by 2 guys that were only there for 1 season, including a high-priced Carlos Beltran that was absolutely a detriment to the team in terms of his production and now the intangible leadership aspect has actually led to damaging the reputations of the young players around him.
Agreed. A snitch revealing it or the fact that other teams probably do it too doesn't make us less guilty IMO. What's wrong is wrong no matter who reveals it or how many other people do it. Like others, I think the thing that is most frustrating about all of this is that we didn't NEED to do it, as evidenced by our record on the road in 2017. Maybe we should change the name of MMP back to Enron Field......
I agree with this. This is one of the toughest pills to swallow in my opinion. That pill being that the context of the situation will never truly be taken into account. What I mean is...looking back at 2017 and our "core 4" guys. Bregman and Correa were like 22 years old, Springer while older at 27 or so was still under control for 4 years, and Altuve was being paid pennies on a contract that was set to run to like 2021. All were homegrown having never played for any other franchise. Then you bring in these guys who aren't just your typical "vet leaders." McCann and Beltran are guys who had both made well over 100 million in their careers. Arguably legends as McCann is one of the best catchers of his generation and Beltran probably THE best switch hitter of his generation. So of course, these young core guys were gonna eat this up. ANYTHING Beltran suggested was gonna get eaten up. And yet Beltran gives this "apology" that did nothing but further throw his "pupils" under the bus by pretending to basically be a bystander who "should have spoke up." But the people who have read every single report, and every single article on this whole mess...we know. We know Beltran orchestrated this, and we know he brought it with him from somewhere else. That story just seems to be getting buried further and further with each passing day. While it seems like I might be deflecting or offering up excuses. I really am not. I find this whole thing pretty embarrassing. But I just want the proper context put in place and I want the league to investigate every other lead, especially the leads that have been named over and over. One last thing. In hindsight, watching some of these interviews and tv episodes with A-Rod...he has been trolling the Astros with this since the beginning. He has known all along. I wonder how he knows? Some further context...he and Beltran were teammates with the Yankees for 3 years. Smh
Also, one silver lining to this...it appears as though this will go back to be Jose Altuve's team. I personally havent been too thrilled the last couple season as Bregman's persona started to define this team. Love Bregman and he is our best player...but the over confidence and cockiness can go away for a while.
They immediately started getting opposing pitchers attention in 2017 when they had guys on 2b. It was night/day from previous years. that initial success had to be a catalyst for organizing something as structured as they did. They became experts at it long before trash cans got involved.
