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So the Astros 2017 title is tainted

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by rockets13champs, Nov 12, 2019.

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King1 Contributing Member

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Surfguy said: ↑

Altuve is a man of God. I want to hear him say it never happened. Then, I will take him at his word and lay it to rest if he says the claims are false.

I can accept old school methods of sign stealing but a clear violation of the written rules using cameras and monitors is not my idea of playing clean, fair baseball. I would be disappointed about it. And, I would accept whatever punishment it requires.

The idea that some players on the team would not know it is going on when and if it was....I'm not buying that. Either everyone knew or it didn't happen. Therefore, either the whole team is going to lie about it or be busted on it.
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Beltran is too

#81 King1, Nov 12, 2019

arkoe (ง'̀-'́)ง

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RustyHarden said: ↑

Here's the evidence

FWIW Vid creator(who's content I enjoy) is diehard Yankees fan
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That's so loud and blatantly obvious I don't understand how no one complained about it before. Random noises drive me nuts on the telecasts, I can't believe I didn't notice it.

#82 arkoe, Nov 12, 2019

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DCkid Contributing Member

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Made it to the Washington Post homepage

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/11/12/astros-sign-stealing-mlb/

MLB must address sign-stealing scandal after report on Astros’ video espionage

The Houston Astros have long been suspected by rival teams and industry insiders of using electronic methods to steal opponents’ signs at Minute Maid Park, and a story published Tuesday appears to confirm the team used a video feed from a camera stationed in center field to steal catchers’ signs and relay them to their hitters during its 2017 World Series championship season.

The story, published by the Athletic, quotes former Astros pitcher Mike Fiers, as well as three other team sources granted anonymity, as confirming the existence of the sign-stealing system. Major League Baseball rules prohibit the use of cameras or other electronic equipment for the purpose of stealing signs.

“They were advanced, and willing to go above and beyond to win,” Fiers, who pitched for the Astros from 2015-17, told the publication.

According to the story, a camera in center field caught signs from the catcher and sent a video feed to a monitor behind the Astros’ dugout. Once the signs were decoded, the pitch choices were relayed to hitters by a player or staff member banging on a trash can to indicate breaking balls or off-speed pitches.

Former big league pitcher Danny Farquhar also went on the record with the Athletic, saying he noticed the banging noises during a September 2017 appearance at Minute Maid Park with the Chicago White Sox — with the noises always appearing when his catcher called for change-up.

“My assumption was they were picking it up from the video and relaying signs to the dugout,” Farquhar, now retired from pitching, told the Athletic. “ … It made me very upset.”

While the Astros’ alleged sign-stealing operation was initiated by players, it also “required the direct aid of at least some on the baseball operations staff,” people familiar with the situation told the Athletic.

The Astros declined to comment on the story, citing in a statement an investigation it has begun “in cooperation with Major League Baseball.” General Manager Jeff Luhnow referred to the team’s statement and declined further comment when peppered with questions at the general managers’ meetings in Scottsdale, Ariz.

Although the Athletic made clear its story was specific to the 2017 season, whispers about the Astros’ sign-stealing operations have persisted well beyond. During the 2018 postseason, an Astros employee was discovered filming into the opposing dugout, but the Astros claimed the employee was only “playing defense” by ensuring no one from the opposition was stealing the Astros’ own signs, and MLB did not discipline the Astros.

Largely as a result of that incident, MLB distributed new rules to teams regarding electronic sign-stealing before the 2019 season, including one that specifically banned cameras beyond the outfield fences trained on the catcher’s signs.

“Beginning in the 2017 season,” MLB said in a statement issued Tuesday, “numerous Clubs expressed general concerns that other Clubs were stealing their signs. As a result of those concerns, and after receiving extensive input from the General Managers, we issued a revised policy on sign-stealing before the 2019 season. We also put in place detailed protocols and procedures to provide comfort to Clubs that other Clubs were not using video during the game to decode and steal signs. After we review this new information, we will determine any necessary next steps.”

But the scrutiny of the Astros did not end with the new rules and protocols. During this year’s American League Championship Series, the New York Yankees at one point accused the Astros of stealing signs and relaying them to their hitters through a system of whistles, though an MLB investigation found no evidence of wrongdoing by the Astros.

During the World Series, the Washington Nationals went to great lengths to alter and disguise their system of catchers’ signs in preparation for playing at Minute Maid Park, with pitchers and catchers using five different sets of signs. The Nationals won all four games in the Astros’ home stadium on their way to the championship.

The dark arts of sign-stealing and pitch-tipping recognition have a long and accepted history within baseball, at least when accomplished by non-electronic means. Typically, catchers have switched to a more complex set of signs with runners on second base, to prevent that runner from deciphering them and signaling pitch-calls to the batter through subtle movements.

But with the advancements in video and mobile technology, teams have begun employing the more complex signs — and changing them frequently — even with no runners on base, either out of suspicion of sign-stealing or paranoia. Either way, the counterespionage measures have added time to games, with pitchers taking longer between pitches. The average time of a nine-inning game rose by five minutes, to 3 hours 5 minutes in 2019.

Much of the suspicion — or paranoia, if you prefer — has centered around the Astros, who are known to be among the most aggressive users of video technology in their scouting, player development and coaching efforts.

But while the Astros have drawn most of the scrutiny, and not without reason, many within the industry believe the problem of electronic sign-stealing is a problem throughout the game. The most visible example came in September 2017, when the Boston Red Sox were fined by MLB for using an Apple Watch to relay stolen signs against the Yankees — still the only time a team has been disciplined, at least publicly, for violating sign-stealing rules.

With MLB currently investigating the Astros’ front-office culture, in the wake of the team’s firing of assistant general manager Brandon Taubman following his profane and offensive comments directed at three female reporters, the league could expand its reach to include an assessment of team executives’ knowledge and direction of the sign-stealing operation.

But while the Astros sit at the center of this controversy, all of baseball will be watching closely to see how the league responds. In the digital age, it is fair to speculate every team in the sport has been either a victim or a perpetrator of electronic sign-stealing, or quite possibly both.

Jesse Dougherty contributed to this report.
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#83 DCkid, Nov 12, 2019
phasors28 Member

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If the Astros were so sophisticated at cheating at home, why did they lose all their WS home games to the Nats but win all their road games? Did they have cameras in DC?

#84 phasors28, Nov 12, 2019

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K-Low_4_Prez Member

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Well we need to stop cause we were **** at home

#85 K-Low_4_Prez, Nov 12, 2019

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phasors28 said: ↑

If the Astros were so sophisticated at cheating at home, why did they lose all their WS home games to the Nats but win all their road games? Did they have cameras in DC?
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Playing devils advocate perhaps they were getting fooled by the Nats because they switched up their signs and were waiting for a specific pitch but getting others.

#86 K-Low_4_Prez, Nov 12, 2019

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moonsh0t Member

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K-Low_4_Prez said: ↑

Playing devils advocate perhaps they were getting fooled by the Nats because they switched up their signs and were waiting for a specific pitch but getting others.
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This might work for a few innings. 4 games??

#87 moonsh0t, Nov 12, 2019

solid Contributing Member

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In life, there are bigger fish to fry. Yawn.

#88 solid, Nov 12, 2019

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UTAllTheWay Member

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I hope Fiers gets called out on every single substance he has on his glove from this point forward.

#89 UTAllTheWay, Nov 12, 2019

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REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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UTAllTheWay said: ↑

I hope Fiers gets called out on every single substance he has on his glove from this point forward.
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Have you seen our pitcher’s secret sauce?

#90 REEKO_HTOWN, Nov 12, 2019

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Even if this whole story is completely true here are my counter arguments:

So the two games won in LA, including Game 7, don’t matter?

Our entire road record would be untainted

This has no barring on how great our pitching and defense has been

Even knowing the pitch type, the batters still don’t know the exact speed of the ball or location of the pitch. It still takes a lot of skill to hit a major league change up, even if you know it’s coming

It’s completely hypocritical to say that stealing signs when you have a player at second base is completely fine, but doing it with more efficiency (using a camera) is wrong
#91 samtaylor, Nov 12, 2019

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LonghornFan Contributing Member

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arkoe said: ↑

That's so loud and blatantly obvious I don't understand how no one complained about it before. Random noises drive me nuts on the telecasts, I can't believe I didn't notice it.
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See my post two pages back on this guy. This is very easy to do with a bit of editing on any pc. I can't believe so many fell for that video, from a Yankee fan who is known for stuff like this on Twitter. It's fake bro.

#92 LonghornFan, Nov 12, 2019

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#93 LonghornFan, Nov 12, 2019

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Stros need to go spygate on these MFers.

I know that Patriots team didn't win the championship in the end (due to that crazy catch) but I remember how hungry they were that year to prove a point to the league.

#94 JayGoogle, Nov 12, 2019

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TheRealist137 said: ↑

If true, I lost respect for the Astros and other Astros fans should as well. The WS ring is tainted in my eyes now. I don't like the Patriots cheating with Spygate either, so I'm being consistent.
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Is that you Nolan Ryan?

#95 lw17, Nov 12, 2019

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LonghornFan Contributing Member

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If you're on Twitter and don't follow Josh or Flags Fly Over you're missing out. Always great stuff.

#96 LonghornFan, Nov 12, 2019

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Not surprised. This comes with success. Ask the Patriots.

#97 AkeemOlaDROwon, Nov 12, 2019

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Gray_Jay Member

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REEKO_HTOWN said: ↑

Have you seen our pitcher’s secret sauce?
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Is it the same stuff Tanaka had in his hat?

As to sign-stealing, this is easy: go to an electronic clicker the catcher manipulates between pitches, and an earpiece the pitcher wears. Encrypt the signal---basically treat it like how the NFL has an earpiece in the QB's helmet---and get back to playing baseball. Not like MLB doesn't have the money.

Take away a draft pick from teams that conclusively were proved to have cheated, including the Astros if proven, and move on.

#98 Gray_Jay, Nov 12, 2019

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Snitches get stitches...and lie in ditches.

#99 the11mingdynasty, Nov 12, 2019

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LonghornFan said: ↑

See my post two pages back on this guy. This is very easy to do with a bit of editing on any pc. I can't believe so many fell for that video, from a Yankee fan who is known for stuff like this on Twitter. It's fake bro.
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When deep fakes get as easy to make as Photoshopping, things will get even more interesting in journalism.

The Astros couldn't think of a more elegant way to get info to the batter than banging on a trash can? In a noisy ballpark? Someone needs to point out that it isn't 2012 anymore: people actually go to Astros home games now.

#100 Gray_Jay, Nov 12, 2019

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