You need the size/length and the superstar. The lakers wouldn't win a championship without Kobe. Sure it isn't necessary to have a 7' center but that size and length helps to play better defense. Chuck is one of the most effective post defenders but there are times there is nothing he can do to stop players inside. Without all of Hayes' defensive fundamentals and quick feet/hands a guy like Andrew Bynum can make a good defensive play with relative ease. Not all GM's before Morey are idiots. They take gambles on big centers for a reason, decent talent at that position is hard to find. Sometimes it makes sense to get a raw guy with little skill but size/athleticism and have confidence your organization can groom him into something.
This is how you get a roster over the years filled with short players; Hayes, Brooks, Head, Landry, etc. If you continue to draft or pickup players because your analogy is, I can get a smaller player who is more skilled vs. a bigger player who might need more time, your roster will end up like the 2010-2011 Houston Rockets. If you go back to 2004, after the Rockets lost to the Mavs in the play-offs and we had a back court of Wesley and James, two short players that was at a disadvantage against Finley and Stackhouse, after that series the cries of many Rockets fan were that we need to get taller and more athletic. It's 2011 and we are still saying the same thing. You would think we would have learned our lesson after that play-off lost but we come back and the very next draft we go out and get Luther Head, another short 2 guard!! The draft after that, this is when the small but effective analogy really kicks in, with Aaron Brooks and Carl Landry. Both are very skilled players but not tall enough. Look at what the Spurs did that draft; Tiago Splitter (6'11") and Marcus Williams (6'7"). Sure only one player made it on their team but Tiago is a 6'11" center that is going to be effective for years to come, while we are still looking for a BIG MAN! The 2008 draft, the Spurs turn around and drafted a 6'2" point guard, George Hill! Long Arms with the potential to become Great. I am still perplexed over why the Rockets took 6'6" Joey Dorsey over a player every Rocket fan would love right now, DeAndre Jordan. But once again, we decided to choose the smaller player with the most skill and not the taller with the potenetial to become Great. The Rockets have what is called "Stinking Thinking". You draft someone and you know if he reaches his maximum potential, he is never going to be a Championship caliber player. Why do it in the first place, it makes no sense!!!! The draft is easy, if you know how to draft! If you do not have a top 10 pick, you draft a player who has the POTENTIAL to become Great!
Or offensively. What kind of wussy ass 7 footer shoots 3s and passes the ball? Yinka Dare is rolling over in his grave now.
Yes. The Rockets missed on so many championship caliber players. If only we had George Hill, DeAndre Jordan, and Tiago Splitter instead of Scola(who became expendable due to the Splitter pick), the Rockets would be blowing away all competition right now. And thank you for your amazing skill of 20/20 hindsight. I'm sure Morey can learn from you of 2 years in the future regarding who to pick in the upcoming draft.
I knew somebody would bring up Big Ben and the Pistons. 1. They traded for Rasheed to win it all. 2. 90% of the big man minutes during the playoff/championship run in 2004 were played by Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, and Mehmet Okur. That's your wimpy 6'7" Ben Wallace, and two 6'11" guys. That means that in addition to the best defensive big man in basketball at that time (Big Ben), he was playing alongside a long, tall teammate who was a great help defender/shot blocker. The only time two of those three were not on the floor was the garbage minutes of those games. There are two exceptions to my list. Dennis Rodman and Ben Wallace. I'll grant you, Wallace is an undersized big when it comes to height. But he was the exception because of his incredible length, brute upper body strength, and his hops. He was the best paint defender of the early 2000s and you could make the case he is the best big man defender of the last decade. I would say he was. Now, look at Rodman. Basically in a similiar mold. Not a center, but the most active PF and a crazy rebounder and a tenacious defender, one of the greatest rebounders, at least top 5 rebounders to ever play the game along with being a top rate defender. Those two guys are in a different class from other undersized bigs. They were absolutely sensational at what they did. They were as sensational defensively and on the glass as Barkley and Adrian Dantley were sensational offensively. They are in the same class defensively as Barkley and Dantley are in offensively. And even then, they were surrounded with other seven footers. I'm glad you brought this out because I am going to propose this: Chuck Hayes is the closest player defensively to Ben Wallace that I've ever seen. Not in his athleticism but in his defensive stature and his ability to create havoc on guys posting up, get stops, turnovers, and defend his man one-on-one. He very well could be the third exception player on a championship contender that played significant minutes on a championship......but only if he is playing alongside two long and tall big men at least 6'10"+ that eat up minutes and are skilled on both ends of the court similiar to what Rasheed and Okur were, In case you have forgotten, Rasheed at that time, was in a similiar class to Duncan. He was Duncan's single biggest nightmare. And Okur was a young big with a very good skillset that brought it. Not to mention Elden Campbell there for emergencies. The Rodman story?? You know it. He played with the bad boys during Detroit's first championships. His second run of ships came alongside Jordan and Pippen. Are we getting Lebron/Wade/Kobe or any other great, most dominant player any time soon???? Nope. And besides all that, Rodman also played with ............. yep .............. seven footers on those Bulls teams. Longley, Kukoc (almost), Wennington. Hayes could be very, very effective in a Ben Wallace/Dennis Rodman type role. He is a very underrated player. And in my opinion, his contributions to this team winning goes beyond..........................Scola's. Scola, in my opinion, is the big man that has to be moved in trade. 1. because of his trade value. and 2. because he is a net zero player. He is not big enough or long enough to make a difference on the defensive end or on the glass. You can go on back 20+ years. The evidence speaks for itself. You've got to have at least one player and preferrable two players that get primary rotation minutes that are either seven foot tall or very close to seven foot tall and long to win a championship.
Size does matter, but not AS much in a Princeton offense... Nene is perfect. We need a Deke to come off the bench. Hello Samuel Dalembert.
Been saying it for years,but the bigger problem for the rockets is the lack of versitility along the frontline. When Yao was healthy, it was still a bad and misguided mix of talent. I like scola and landry, but the guy playing next to yao shouldve been either a floor stretcher or a cato type. Basically, that guy shouldve been either tim thomas like or camby type. They need the guys who is the hybrid 4 who can put the ball on the floor and shoot 3's or that 6'11 rim defender. When yao was playing, teams could always expose his mobility in space which is to be expected. The rockets compounded that problem by having 2 more guys in landry and scola who were just as bad in space. Now when a team needed a shot, they would put Yao in pnr away from the rim and either get a good jumper or attack the rim from which yao was not guarding. Since neither scola or landry were shot blockers, once the corner was turned,it was a layup or good shot at the rim. Not only that, neither of your center could play together. So now the backup cant play with the starter to combat a big frontline. In the example the op used later like detroit, wallace and wallace could play with campbell or okur.
Yawn, we can complain all day about "height" , "length" , "athleticism" , "heart" , " championship caliber players" , "chemistry" , and what have you. Bottom line is with a healthy Yao and Mcgrady we are contenders, without we are not. It's really that simple. Sure Deandre Jordan would be nice but in the grand scheme of things it wouldn't make a difference for this team. The team was built shoddily until Morey got here and by the time he could get talent around our franchise guys it was too late. It sucks the way **** turned out but trying to pin it on something other than the elephant is just dumb. I will never understand the constant need to complain about ****. Ultimately all it does is get people riled up, a scapegoat targeted, and eventually run out of town. This reminds me of the Astros with Hunsicker. They had a stellar GM, he got run out of town and now they are a disaster. Have some patience Rockets fans.
It'd be interesting to see how different people define the term "championship contender." It's assumed here that we were contenders when we had McGrady and Yao.. but we never made it out of the first round with them. How could we be legitimate championship contenders if we were one-round-and-out every year? The Houston fans had NOTHING to do with Hunsicker leaving.
Why a rim defender next to Yao? Yao had defense at the basket covered. He struggled defending away from the basket.
This has been debated a lot on this site. Whether or not it's more important to play inside out or outside in. I mean some even called a "scorer" like Rondo/Fisher more necessary. It's very important to have an inside presence. Unfortunately, the Rockets were in a tough dilemma in banking on Yao's name/money draw ability and hoping at the same time he'd be that post presence every championship team needs. There have been quite a few nights this year where a missed rebound late in the game, or missed rebounds throughout the game, or lack of a weak side shot blocker has cost the Rockets the game. I don't know how many wins a big man like Nene would add but there would be more than we have now. Even a block from DeAndre Jordan on a couple of nights could increase the confidence and level of play and "inspired" a victory. The defensive inefficiency of the guards wouldn't have been as exposed or complained about either.
What impact do you think would a Battier/Jeffries for Kaman/DeAndre Jordan trade have on the Rockets?
- The Autobiography of Charles Barkley, p. 1. Anyway, this thread makes no sense without a JCDenton graph or brian chapman revealing some horrifying insight into his disturbing sex life (or lack thereof).
If you're asking me specifically, they would help a lot. I doubt the Clippers would deal both of them especially when they wouldn't be getting a big in return. They'd also want more in terms of prospects in addition I think. Kaman isn't seen as a bad contract there either. If healthy, he's still a good player. Also, Jordan is one of Griffin's good friends on team. Why tell him his friend isn't needed which is what you'd be doing trading him for expiring contracts?
