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Size and length do matter

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jopatmc, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Powell, Mbenga (twice)
    Garnett, Perkins, P.J. Brown, Leon Powe, Glen Davis
    Duncan, Oberto, Horry, Elson, Bonner
    Shaq, Haslem, Antoine Walker, Mourning, Doleac
    Duncan, Horry, Nazr, Nesterovic, Glen Robinson, Massenburg
    B.Wallace, R.Wallace, Williamson, Okur, Elden Campbell
    Duncan, David, Malik Rose, Danny Ferry, Kevin Willis
    Shaq, Horry, Samaki, Medvedenko, Madsen
    Shaq, Grant, Horry, Madsen, Foster
    Shaq, Horry, A.C. Green, John Salley, Travis Knight
    Duncan, David, Malik, Kersey, Perdue,
    Rodman, Longley, Kukoc, Wennington, Simpkins
    Rodman, Longley, Kukoc, Dele, Caffey, Parish
    Rodman, Longley, Kukoc, Wennington, Salley, Edwards
    Hakeem, Horry, Chilcutt, Charles Jones, Herrera, Tabak
    Hakeem, Horry, Thorpe, Herrera, Cureton
    Cartwright, Grant, Scott Williams, Stacey King, Will Perdue
    Cartwright, Grant, Will Perdue, Scott Williams, Cliff Levingston, Stacey King
    Cartwright, Grant, Will Perdue, Cliff Levingston, Stacey King, Scott Williams


    This is a list of the big man rotations for the playoffs for all the NBA champions back to 1991. I didn't figure I needed any more evidence to support my point since prior to that was the Detroit Bad Boys and the great Celtic and Lakers teams of Bird and Magic along with Moses Malone's Sixers team.

    Point 1: No team has won a championship, including Jordan's Bulls teams, without at least 1 and most of the time 2 legitimate seven footers.

    Point 2: No team has won a championship, including Jordan's Bulls teams, without at least 1 seven footer playing significant minutes during their playoff run.

    Point 3: Every team, with the possible exception of Jordan's last trio of championships which had Rodman starting at PF, had a starting combination of C/PF that were at least 6'9" tall or taller each.

    Point 4: Every team had at least one player starting that was either a legit seven foot tall player or at the very least a player with exceptional length (Hakeem/Duncan) who was considered a seven footer.

    Point 5: The average height of these championship teams big man playoff rotation is around 6'10.

    Point 6: We have two players on our roster who are 6'10", Jordan Hill and Brad Miller.

    Point 7: We do not have a single seven footer on our team much less a seven footer playing major rotation minutes.

    Point 8: Our most effective big man combination stands 6'6" and 6'9" and neither of them is long.

    Point 9: We were at our best when we had two legit seven footers that played major rotation minutes (Yao/Deke).

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    We need at least two legitimate big men that can play major rotation minutes at the 5/4.

    If we can get Nene, we need to get him.

    If we could get Bogut, we need to get him.

    If we could get Gortat, we need to get him.

    If we could get Kendrick Perkins, we need to get him.

    If we could get Okafor, we need to get him.

    If we could get Spencer Hawes, we need to get him.

    If we could get Asik, we need to get him.

    If we could get Biedrins for a little bit of nothing, we should make the deal.

    If some other team decides they need to rebuild and they have a quality seven footer to trade, we should make the deal.

    Worst case scenario, if we have to trade Yao's contract for Dally, we should do that.....if we can get Dally to agree to a modest contract extension at say $5 mill per. He's a necessary rotation big in the mold of Deke that I don't necessarily want to see starting but that needs to be playing rotation minutes because of his size, length, and defensive skills. I'd rather trade Yao for a Dalembert re-signed at a reasonable deal going forward, and then be able to re-sign a recovering Yao to some sort of low salary deal as to do nothing.

    A better case scenario would be to get Dally for a minimum salary deal or to trade Yao/Jeffries/Hill to Sac for Dally and a minimum salary like Antoine Wright, if we could get Dally to agree to an extension for 4 years/$20 million or something like that. This would give us one legit seven footer (Dally) at reasonable money going forward. We would also have the opportunity to re-sign Yao in the offseason if he actually rehabbed and came back. We would have a TPE of $17 million. And we would also have the opportunity to trade for another long, tall big man or two. Take Garcia off their hands with the TPE to help them save even more money. That would give us the latitude to include a player like Lee in a deal for another legit seven footer (possibly Asik or Anthony Randolph), or move Scola, Lee, and Brooks in a huge deal to add a big time PF to go along with Patterson and Hayes (our two best bigs).

    Whatever the case may be, we gotta get big and long or we got NO CHANCE to compete for a championship.
     
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  2. AB423

    AB423 Member
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    That's what she said..
     
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  3. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    I think people are taking the whole "Morey only takes undersized upperclassmen" thing a little too literally. Of course size and length matters. Morey even talks about how Patterson and Hill compares to players people perceive to be regular sized big men.

    It's not so much that Morey wants undersized guys like Landry. But rather he prefers an undersized player who can play over a player with full length and size, but can't walk and chew gum at the same time. There's a reason why Morey doesn't take "flyers" on the likes of Rodrick Rhodes or Jason Collier, and instead pick players like Brooks and Landry instead. I assure you. Give Morey a #1 pick, and he's not going to pick an undersized tweener 3-4.

    On a side and not so important note, Hakeem wasn't a 7-footer. And the Rockets were fairly undersized in their 2nd championship run. Of course, that didn't really matter much because Dream was Dream, and Will Smith in his younger days could pretty much guard any position, anywhere on the court.
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    We should have kept Stromile Swift
     
  5. primtim24

    primtim24 Contributing Member

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    I have to admit, after reading the title I was slightly caught of guard.

    In regards to your post though; I have been saying this all along when this "Carmelo to Houston" stuff flooded the posts.

    For all the people who say they want Carmelo and don't need size just look at the Post Shaq, Pre Gasol Lakers. The Lakers had the best player on the planet at the time and still couldn't even get to the W.C.F.'s

    And now people think with a player that isn't even in the same realm of talent we're supposed to win a championship.

    For the record I dont think you have to have a 7" Center, I think you just need to have a GOOD big man who can play good defense.
     
  6. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne Contributing Member

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  7. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

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    One of the most easiest mismatches to exploit is a size advantage, even when the undersized player is skilled. You can get away with an undersized player here and there, but having 3/4 the roster undersized (and under-athletic) will have its disadvantages.


    Bill Simmons had an agreeable comment for once, about how size matters in the playoffs

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmonsnfl2010/101015&sportCat=nba
     
  8. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    Same goes with Ben Wallace, though Sheed was 6'11''.

    Anyhow, you don't need "size and length." You need guys who can can rebound, block shots and clog up the paint defensively. Typically size and length contribute to these things (not too many 6'4'' Hall of Fame Centers), but basketball skill is equally important, if not more so.
     
  9. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    Totally agree here. Morey is looking for guys that can play....at least a little bit.

    In no uncertain terms, a big man rotation of Zan Tabak and Chuck Nevitt wouldn't get Michael Jordon or James and Wade to the Finals.

    That wasn't my point. My point is you have to have at least two legitimate big men that can play on the defensive end, that can stay on the floor and make life difficult for smalls driving the lane and make it difficult for opposing bigs to post up effectively. You've got to have that on any championship team.

    Yes, I realize Hakeem wasn't a seven footer. But he was a very long 6'10" and he was always listed as a 7-footer, and he played alongside two guys that were the primary front court players during our championship years, and both of them were 6'10". Not only that but Herrera was the small big on those teams and he was 6'9".
     
  10. Liberon

    Liberon Rookie

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    What do you guys think of Krylo Fesenko? Kid is a lean 7'1 but weighs freaking 300lbs. You look at him and instantly note that it's not from fat and has to equate to 1 thing, muscle mass. He comes from a former Soviet Block Country thus is the second coming Colossus. If only this Colossus had a brain to pilot his body correctly.
     
  11. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    studies have shown that girth is more important than length
     
  12. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    Yeah, and this thread was designed to separate the boys from the men. All the boys are responding with the sexual innuendos. And the men are discussing basketball. ; )
     
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  13. waytookrzy079

    waytookrzy079 Member

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    are implying that you have neither size or length? lol
     
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  14. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    The Rockets also need more penetration and ball handling in order to score more consistently against pressure.
     
  15. SynergySin

    SynergySin Member

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    Posting an an epic thread.
     
  16. Prince

    Prince Member

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    Too bad John Holmes is dead. He's got size ang length.
     
  17. BetterThanEver

    BetterThanEver Contributing Member

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    Don't diss the Detroit Pistons. :cool: They won with the Wallace boys and Okur. All of these guys were 6'8-6'11". Darko, the only seven footer on the roster and he was the human victory cigar.

    The Pistons are another possible exception. Ben Wallace is listed at 6'9", but he seems much shorter like 6'8". The NBA profile seems to have some height inflation.

    The good old days of Hakeem. How I miss them. :(

    If you take Ben Wallace's listed height as the actual height. Then, Jared Jeffries and Brad Miller are 6'11" and 7'0" trash, respectively. :(

    Fixed
    Point 7: We do not have a single even footer playing major rotation minutes.

    If you believe Ben Wallace is 6'9" as listed on his nba profile, then Brad Miller is 7'0" as listed.

    +10000. Agree with everything else. Moneyball seriously underrates height.
     
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  18. opticon

    opticon Member

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    Thats what she said!
     
  19. trueroxfan

    trueroxfan Member

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    that's what she said
     
  20. trueroxfan

    trueroxfan Member

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    ah damn, of course someone beat me to that line. shoulda known, but i couldn't resist
     
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