I'm not so sure that the value of these franchises are affected too much by attendance at this point, honestly. Particularly in larger markets. Moving, for example, the Flames to Houston would increase the value of that franchise overnight...just from the relocation from that market to this one. I don't think anyone would be buying this team looking to cut losses in a league that's still talking about expansion. It's a long play. As long as the league stays away from the labor strife that hurt it so badly before, whoever owns an NHL team in Houston is going to make money and increase his/her bottom line on a balance sheet. Particularly with how favorable the arena deal is if you also happen to own the Houston Rockets.
But then why are teams like Phoenix and Miami... fan bases that would be quite comparable to Houston’s... operating at a loss with owners possibly looking to sell? Sure, attendance isn’t everything... but it still remains the largest component of operating revenue. Owners will operate at a loss for as long as the overall franchise value is high, but at some point they’re going to cash out when they no longer want to be losing money.
Because the Coyotes and Panthers don't actually play in Phoenix or Miami. They play in Westgate, AZ and Sunrise, FL, suburbs that are not centrally located in their regions, making attending games inconvenient for a lot of fans. It also doesn't help matters when the regions basketball teams (Suns & Heat) play in venues that are more centrally located then their suburban hockey counterparts. And that's the big difference with Houston: Toyota Center is centrally located in the metro.
Those teams/owners chose to move to those locations with the goal of making more money. They both used to play in the same central venues the suns and heat played in. A lot has to go right for sun belt nhl teams to thrive/survive.
Wrong. The Aeros didn't leave for lack of support, it was a Chuck Watson/Les Alexander pissing match. Houston can easily support a hockey team.
Houston is MUCH larger than both of those markets. Miami is a BAD sports town.....so is Phoenix. You cannot compare those fan bases to Houston. Just look at the Marlins. They gutted their teams after 2 different WS championships because of lack of support.
That's was minor league hockey, NHL tickets as someone mentioned are among the very highest prices for all sports. I would think they would need @ least 10-12,000 a game to be a success and during the school year that would be very tough, IMO.
Minor league hockey is a gauge. There won't be an issue for a Hockey team drawing 15-17,000 a game. You do realize there are 5 million people in the Metro area?
Another thing to consider; would the cost of the NHL team effect his willingness to spend on the Rockets?
And yet those markets were deemed more attractive for expansion franchises than Houston, and will still maintain having all 4 major sports for the foreseeable future. When it comes to hockey, I don’t think you can say any southern market is “better” than the other.
This city has had issues with no shows and apathy for Rockets games.... with many blaming traffic, late starts, and weeknight/school night issues as excuses. Hockey has almost just as many home games at the same time of year, most on weeknight so. It is not a slam dunk by any means.
I think you guy are missing a point. Hockey crowds are not the same as Basketball. Yes, you have fans of both. However, Hockey demographic is more white and affluent. There is also the aspect that Hockey attracts fans that are more like football fans than basketball.
My understanding is both franchises are saddled with unreal debt making it very difficult for either to build a good product. Arena deals nowhere near as attractive as what the owner of the Rockets would enjoy for an NHL team in Toyota Center. Calgary’s issue is about a standoff between the city and team ownership over a new arena. For all the talk about the difficulties of Sun Belt teams, the Stars have been in Dallas for about 25 years; the Panthers have been in Miami for 20 years; the Lightning have been in Tampa for 25 years; and so on. Decades of NHL hockey in my hometown sounds good to me. The size of Houston’s market and the particular advantages of the Toyota Center lease are what distinguish it.
Sorry. Missed this. But this is kinda my point. For all these issues, the Rockets are still insanely valuable! The market size and the arena deal are differentiators. The Rockets are an extremely healthy pro sports franchise, so I’m not sure using them as an example of the problems with having an NHL team in Houston makes a lot of sense.
If hockey came to Houston, I'd put it in on the West side - near I-10 and the beltway. So attendance can draw from Spring, Cypress, Katy, The Woodlands, Memorial. I don't think there are enough northern transplants living in Houston to really support NHL hockey, though. It would be a novelty for a while, but the long term success would be a real question mark. I think the NHL would be far better served adding a 2nd team to Toronto and continuing to pursue the Seattle team. I also think Cleveland and Milwaukee could support teams. You need a fan base that grew up with the game and can get their youth involved in the game. Houston really doesn't offer that. Phoenix is a comparable situation and that has been a disaster for the NHL.
Yes... but the NHL, and their franchise stability, is a far different animal than comparing a 50+ year established franchise with international ties like the Rockets and the NBA. NHL teams that move (and there have been more teams move in the NHL than any other pro sports franchise)... move because of a lack of local support. The Rockets have also had to be extremely successful to sell out the last few years, and even then... apathy exists in droves. If the Rockets were in a rebuild, or they were just an average team, they would struggle at the gate as well, and the franchise value would eventually reflect that. Imagine a team/sport that the city has no ties to, and a team that is no lock to be a contender. Its a huge risk/gamble. Like you, I've lived here and family has been here for generations. We know how the fandom is wired. The only thing that supports having 4 teams is the population size, but if that were the case... apathy or struggling to find a legion of Rockets fans to be in their seats and cheer every night for the best team in the NBA wouldn't be a problem, and Houston would have found a way to have an NHL team well before bad sports cities like Atlanta, Miami, etc.
They specifically moved to those places for sweetheart arena deals, where the owner has even more shares of the profits. Support has dwindled due to a subpar product, and thus so have revenues. Yes, franchise value gets inherently preserved so the owners can always cash out and recoup their losses... but they're only willing to operate at a loss for so long. That would be the exact dilemma facing any NHL team in Houston. Get a legion of fans with early success (like what happened in Denver or Dallas) and survive based on diehards... or risk Atlanta 2.0.
I should also state that I'd love Houston to have all 4 major sports.. and I'd probably get into the hockey team as much as possible. However, if you're asking me to bet on Hockey surviving here for decades... its decidedly unclear.
