I think the Rockets are just fine with selling over 99% of their available tickets for the season and having fans spend more time buying overpriced and underpoured drinks in the lounges along the sidelines or the others tucked in corners with blackjack tables. I think that’s by design since they designed it. But the notion that the Rockets don’t have fan support is silly to me when they sell over 99% of their tickets. That’s the risk of buying a team for sure. But that risk is mitigated big time when you consider the difference in franchise value alone just by a move to this market from those...and unburdened from massive debt while in an extremely friendly lease. Of course there’s risk. There is always risk. But when you’re the beneficiary of a lease like the owner of the Rockets has...in a market this big...it’s one lots of people wish they had the money to take. Given the terms of the arena lease here, no team was relocating or forming here unless they were owned by the Rockets owner. And the former one just wasn’t interested after striking out twice. As for it being unclear it would be here for decades...even with all the relocation, what NHL franchise other than the lone exception of Atlanta not there for decades? Teams in California, TX, FL and Carolina have all been there decades. The only exception is Atlanta where litigation between owners prevented any chance of new ownership preserving the team there.
I guess if you are in the business of making money, then why not. With a city this size, you have people from all over who might have come from areas where they grew up watching or playing it. I wouldn't watch it, but I don't go to soccer games either. But, there are plenty who have an interest in just about any sport. I imagine Cricket would even bring a crowd in our diverse culture of Houston.
Baseball, football, and basketball are the same. They make all their money on the expensive suites, luxury boxes, and special seats that are often written off as "business" by the rich.
I don't see the Rockets selling out the season with an inferior product... while Les had his "proud" reasons for not wanting to tank, he also understood this market very well. They literally could not afford to put an inferior product on the court or risk having ticket sales tank. They have corporate support... as a new hockey team will presumably have as well... which is why Houston is in the discussion. Basically, as big as Houston's population is... its not immune to failing to sell out a basketball/hockey arena for an inferior product. Likewise, if successful, the team will sell out (even if it doesn't harbor the rabid support afforded the Texans or Astros). No team in Houston, even the tank-by-design Astros, are immune to a decade of poor fan support, and the NHL will have its work cut out for competing interest in a media market that has a tendency to ignore its own best team in NBA basketball franchise. The team will have to have a fair amount of success to succeed/last here. An inferior team that ultimately leads to apathy will likely be marked for deletion, and yes that makes it more similar to a market like Atlanta vs a market like Nashville, Columbus, or San Jose.
Since 2014 season the Rockets have sold somewhere between 98 to 100 percent of available tickets. Their low water mark over that 5 year stretch was 94%. Two of those years they sold over 100 percent of arena capacity for the season. Regardless, even before when they weren’t, their franchise value still soared. Particularly with that incredibly favorable lease at Toyota Center. They sold for $2.2 billion for goodness sake. The Coyotes or Flames May be sold for less than $500 million. I just can’t imagine using the Rockets as an analogy for why arena sports franchise might fail in Houston. Particularly as the market remains one of the fastest growing in North America.
The Rockets have been successful during that duration. One of the most consistently winning franchises in the NBA. And they still barely register a pulse amongst hot button sports topics locally unless they’re wildly successful. A lot of credit given to the owner as well as GM for always trying to win... but they also know that Houston historically will abandon the nba team if there is a stretch of down years. I do not see them drawing as well has they gone through a stretch like the Lakers and Knicks have. It’s well know that sports wise, and fandom wise , Houston still has a ways to go to be niche sports proof. Other than the Astros, this city still lacks generational fan support. I’ve seen plenty of niche sports fail here due to support/apathy of the fans, regardless of the corporate financing. The NBA is the most comparable sport to the NHL in terms of number of home games, ticket prices, and the time of year they play. It’s going to be a challenge if it ever comes to pass. Seattle likely has a leg up for first franchise relocation.
Sounds like Seattle is getting an expansion team. I disagree generally with your opinions on this, but you’re always respectful and interesting to talk to.
Thanks. I guess I'm just a little pessimistic here because I've been hearing about rumors of the NHL to Houston since the mid 90's. This is the sports version of "disneyland is coming here!". I understand there was a lease issue at TC, and it wouldn't have made sense for anybody other than Les... but another part of this is that if there were truly that much money to be made, and Houston was a slam dunk, some aggressive investor (or team of investors) would have found a way to make it work, including building their own place if needed. I feel those who have truly done the due diligence on this agree that Houston does present unique challenges from a sports city landscape for the NHL that belies it being the 4th most populous metro size and 8th largest media market.
And I’d say Houston doesn’t have to be the perfect NHL market. It’s just needs to have enough to be more attractive right now than Phoenix or Calgary given the NHL is still expanding. They’re not going into retraction.
Sounded like Phoenix very well could be bluffing in order to get Glendale to pay for “needed” renovations in only a 14 year old arena. Ironically, the dbacks also need major renovations to their ballpark. Not great buildings in Arizona. Sounds like Calgary is just no longer a viable market. That being said, the NHL has made the mistake before from moving long-standing Canadian franchises to bigger cities (with warmer climates) only to realize their mistake (see Winnipeg getting a team back). I expect a few serious Houston as leverage threats before something legit actually starts to materialize.
Enough with the weak minded nonsense. An NHL team in Houston will do just fine. Its not 1995 anymore. More people live near downtown than ever before. And who gives a sh*t anyway? Get the team here then deal with it. Everyone should be in favor.
People on here b**** about having to drive from Katy to get to Rockets games and you think that will change with an NHL team? The Rockets can't even get fans in their seats on time but a sorry NHL team will?
As I mentioned to Nick...if you're using the Rockets franchise as a reason to say an NHL team won't work, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. The Rockets are ridiculously lucrative by every measure. They've sold roughly 98% of their arena capacity over the last 6 seasons or so. They just sold for $2.2 billion. They're printing money. I also agree with Champs' point, above, that Houston isn't the same place it was...and it will be very different tomorrow than it is today. It is huge, and it continues to grow faster than most other big cities. This market is extremely desirable for pro sports franchises. Moving a team to here from Phoenix or Calgary would improve the overall enterprise value of that franchise overnight...just by moving it here. That (and the ridiculously attractive lease that the owner of the Rockets enjoys) are why Tillman is so interested...he can pick up a franchise valued at X today...move it here...and find it's X plus overnight.
Tilman has to take out a loan to buy the Rockets. How is he supposed to buy an NHL team? He sure as hell won’t let other investors in to buy and use Toyota Center Point is I don’t even see a serious conversation happening in 5 years. It will be 2020 and we won’t have a team and we can do this all over again
We aren't talking about him paying an expansion fee. The thought is that there are 2 teams primed for relocation which are valued extremely low..that's the attraction to buying and moving here...buy low, move here and improve the team's value overnight. These franchises currently are valued under $400 million last time I saw. The timing of those issues is what has people talking about that....along with Tillman's statements that he's "very interested" in bringing an NHL team to Houston. Tillman has ridiculous assets to leverage..but it would not surprise me at all to see him allow in minority partners...I believe he already has those with the Rockets, the same way Crane and McNair do with their respective franchises.
Tilman isn't broke or close to it. When the Supreme Court ruled that sports betting was legal, the value of his franchise increased by 25-50% by a lot of estimates. So his assets are incredibly valuable, and not volatile. He would have no issues being able to either buy an existing NHL team and move it or pay a potential franchise fee. As far as Houston as a market, I keep hearing about how bad it is from some Houstonians. I am guessing you all haven't lived other places. There are a few places that draw no matter what, but that is the exception. The reality is that the Houston market is a massive plus for a team owner. The teams are worth MORE being in the Houston market, than all but a small handful of markets. Houston has a strong economy, has a growing population and all future indicators are that the city will continue to grow and thrive. That is excellent for a sports franchise. As for the Rockets, people can complain about the lower bowl, but the Rockets sell 99% of their tickets, and do very well in concessions and other money making points. The Texans draw very well, even though they have been a mediocre franchise from day 1. The Astros are drawing well, and have been able to spend more money over the last few decades as the market has grown. Houston can easily support an NHL team is TF wants to bring one aboard.
Are y'all gonna talk **** about TIlman in 4 years like y'all did about Les when there isn't an NHL team here because they just won't do it?
I don't really like the NHL. I spend half my time in Chicago and Ohio and the NHL is pretty close to a minor league team unless the team is really winning. In Chicago everyone had Blackhawk jerseys when they won........ now, you never hear about them, the radio doesn't even mention their score half the time and there is virtually no discussion of the teams. The coverage is similar to what the Houston Comets used to get when they won...... and that is in Chicago, which is a bigger NHL market.
Not sure I understand the question...I'm assuming it's directed at least in part to me. I wish Les had been interested in moving a team here after he had the Toyota Center lease...and I wish he wouldn't have kicked the Aeros to the curb...and I wish he wouldn't have undermined Chuck Watson's expansion bid back in the late 90's when everyone in the country saw Houston as a certainty to be one of the markets added back when they expanded to Atlanta, Columbus and Nashville. Les clouded up that possibility; I don't demonize him for it, because it's just business...but it cost the city an NHL expansion team at that time almost without a doubt. Alternatively, I wish the Toyota Center lease wouldn't have been so generous in it's non-compete type provisions that essentially prevented any one else from coming to town and building their own arena to host hockey within the city limits. If Tilman can't get a deal done because there's no deal to be had, I get it...I think the NHL had made up its mind about expanding to Seattle long before Tilman bought the Rockets. So I don't think it would be a brand new franchise. I think Houston is the logical choice for relocation for Phoenix or Calgary, but it's not my money. Sadly, I don't have the cash or the lease rights to bring an NHL team to Houston.
That's why NHL franchises aren't selling for $2.2 billion. The highest valued team is the NY Rangers at around $1 billion. Forbes values the Coyotes at $300 million.
