Should all the players from that team never be allowed to be in the hall of fame?

It's no secret that 'roids are still rampant in the MLB due to the new masking agents and that they HAVE been since the late 90's. Roy KNOWS of some of the player not named Sosa,Clemens, Bonds or McGwire that made, or will make the hall.Maybe a teammate or two. It was a not so guarded secret among players, coaches, managers, GM's and equipment boys.

 

You are naive to think it didn’t make a difference. Two teams cheated. Two teams won a World Series. Both teams set hitting records over the last three years. Both teams hit well on the road and at home. You really don’t think they were cheating on the road too. It’s naive. You really don’t think they were cheating in 2019 too. Naive. I’ve never seen a cheater just suddenly stop on their own, or cheat just at home. It’s the same argument the steroid users made when they said they only used for a week. Yeah, ok. They were literally hitting off a pitching machine with the signs and the analytics, awards, records all back it up. It worked.

 

additionally, Roy was on a World Series staff loaded with steroids, so while we don’t know anything about what he did or did not do, or what he knows or did not know, we know for sure had access so it would not surprise me in the least if he was amongst them or at the very least had first hand knowledge. He’s not headed to the Hall, so he doesn’t need to be too careful, but the more he talks the more people will start digging again and that is the last thing the Astros need right now. The Astros were lucky not be drawn as a team having a steroid culture, but we certainly could have been portrayed that way, having like seven known users on our roster, and so that’s the last thing we need right now.

 

you ever tried to hit a baseball? Knowing what’s coming doesn’t equate to being able to hit the ball, or hit the ball to a spot where there’s not a fielder. MLB hitters know EXACTLY what pitch a closer is going to throw about 75% of the time. How does that work out for those hitters?

You apparently didn’t read the article or even look around to see what the Astros were accused of. If you had, you’d realize how silly your assessment is. I can’t convince someone to understand what they don’t understand.

 

I’m glad you agree with me. Hitting a baseball should not be this easy and we smacked the shoot out of it because we cheated. We put up numbers never seen before. The Astros weren’t just accused, they were found guilty. There was a mountain of evidence.

 

So if it wasn't helpful, why did the players go through so much trouble to do it? And repeatedly try to come up with new ways to do it? And re-implement it multiple time after Hinch smashed their monitors?

 

To be fair a year isn't a really long time for something like this to have gone on. If they started it mid 2017 and won the World Series, as young ballplayers they obviously would still do it early in 2018. After a couple of months in that season they could have started realizing "hey, i'm better on the road where I don't have so many thoughts quickly going through my mind right before the pitch" and stopped after realizing that.

Pure speculation on my part there, but I don't find it that odd that it went on for basically a full year before they realized maybe it was hurting more than helping....maybe AJ wasn't so much the moral police, as just smarter than others

 

EDIT: delete. It was posted in another thread.

 

Brian Cashman and Aaron Boone wont get punished at all.
Dave Roberts is staying in LA

 

I was looking at this picture and I do get the bad feeling that no matter what Altuve does from here on out he might never get to be an HOF like those other two Stros' Second basemen.

 

He won't be kept out because of this.

 

So much wrong with your logic.

1) No, it's wasn't just two teams that cheated. There were two that were punished. Why do you think that the Yankees are trying so hard to prevent the commissioner's 2017 letter regarding sign stealing from being released? Dodgers, Brewers and Rangers have all been accused in recent years. Teams have been stealing signs for years. Mike Scott claims that when he was with the Mets ('79-82) they had TV cameras pointed at the catcher to steal signs and that they were relaying them in with signals from the bullpen. Jack McDowell says that back in the late '80s the WhiteSox had a camera on the catcher and they used a light on the scoreboard to signal hitters. According to McDowell, it was Tony LaRussa who came up with the idea.

https://www.crawfishboxes.com/2020/...rewers-cubs-phillies-mets-dodgers-rangers-mlb

2) The Astros hit much better on the road in 2017 than then did at home. It's wan't close.

3) You say they were cheating on the road. How? They had an undetectable way to relay the sign to the hitter but they chose to continue to bang on a garbage can at home? Sure that makes sense.

4) They only stole signs at home because that was the only place that they were setup to do it. They stopped because it wasn't effective and also because Cora and Beltran the guys who implemented the system were gone.

5) So if they were cheating in 2019, then how were they doing it? MLB had personel overseeing the feeds to each team.

6) What stats or records back up your claims? They hit better on the road in '17 when they weren't using the trash can. If you truly believe it's that simple to hit even if you know what's coming, then how do you explain hitting so much worse at home? If it's that easy and you believe that they were cheating at home and on the road then the numbers should have been similar, right? Why the big discrepancy?

 

disregard

 

Dumbest thread I've seen in awhile

 

OPS stats back it up. They fell off the cliff this year right? Yep. It happened. Not just a decline, a complete cliff drop. The year after they were caught, not one player, not two, the entire team dropped off by nearly 150 ops just as I predicted they would before the season. Went on record. How could I predict it when nobody else on the forum did? Simple. It's just logic. You don't go from having a historic lineup and ops to notta like they did without foul play at home and on the road. Little leaguers can steal signs. Not hard. Be honest with yourself. But even if you can't do that for yourself just look at the OPS drop at home and on the road as an incontrovertible truth.

 

Astros once again led the league in fewest strikeouts this year but none of the stats this year really matter. If was 60 freaking games and you see how they hit against the A's in the playoffs. The Astros went 29-31 in a 60 game stretch in 2017.

 

MLB said they didn't cheat in 2019. Is MLB lying?

 

MLB didn't ask, and the Astros didn't tell. It was as simple as that. We both know MLB didn't dig. The report was a softy just as it will be for the Yankees, and it was for the RedSox. Soft. Also predictable. Understandable. But predictable.

 

A 60 game season proves anything?

How do you explain the drop off in star players throughout the league?

Cody Bellinger - .239
Christian Yeltich - .205
That's the NL top 2 for MVP in the last two seasons

Javier Baez - .203
JD Martinez - .213
Marcus Semien - .223 - 3rd in AL MVP voting last year
Gary Sanchez - .130
Eusenio Suarez - .271, 49hr, 103 rbi last year, .179, 7hr, 15 rbi this year
Josh Bell - .277, 37hr, 117 rbi last yer, .217, 3hr, 12rbi this year

That's some of the best players in the game who had a bad 60 games. It's not just the astros.

You also never answered my question. If they were able to cheat on the road and have it be undetectable, then why were they still using a garbage can at home? How does that make any sense?

Also, how were they able to get the signs last year with the new rules on video and the league having a monitor at every game (regular season and playoffs)?

 

Camera. Video. It's not hard. The Red Sox used apple. Not difficult. Anyone living in this century has access to the tech. The whole team dropped nearly 150 ops after admitting they cheated. Not one player. The team. Put two and two together.