With all the grief Mobes cops for his shot selection, shooting percentage and point production, i though i'd take a quick look at Mobleys scoring compared to our Starting SHOOTING guard Mr Anderson Through the 53 games, the averages are as follows Mobes- 14.4 ppg Anderson- 10.9 ppg But I thought i'd look at consistancy which seems to be my beef with Anderson, it's either lots or none with him and no middle ground with his scoring 0-4 Pts 5-9 Pts 10-14 Pts 15-19 Pts 20-24 Pts 25-29 Pts 30 Pts or More Mobley 5 8 14 14 9 2 1 Anderson 12 11 18 6 1 4 1 we can add these together further for 0-9 Pts 10-19 Pts Above 20 Mobley 13 28 12 Anderson 23 24 6 And then even further for Below 15 15 or Above Mobley 27 26 Anderson 41 12 Now i know everyone will respond with what about defense, rebounding, assists, steals and any other stat, but that was not the topic I am dealing with which is just Scoring Consistency which Mobley seems to win hands down
One of the things I like about Anderson is that he doesn't demand the ball. He can have a perfectly good game and take only 4 or 5 shots. Often, when he is shooting poorly, he does something very very few NBA players will do.... he stops shooting. I've seen many a game where he scored under 10 points, but had like 7 rebounds and 7 assists to go along with 3 steals. Another thing: Do we really want a high scoring SG? I think we need a more balanced attack with more points coming from Francis and the frontcourt. Anerson gets his points when there's a mismatch, when he's on a fastbreak, or whatever. I like the guy. That being said, isn't it nice to have both of them? Anderson plays a good consistent albeit quiet game, while Mobley is a threat to go off for 20+ on any given night. There are many things that you did not compare between the two players. I guess you were just focusing on offense, but offense isn't all there is out on the court. Games: Mobes - 52, Anderson - 52 Minutes: Anderson - 1638, Mobes - 1612 FG Att: Mobes - 613, Anderson - 471 FG made: Mobes - 249, Anderson - 214 FT Att: Mobes - 216, Anderson - 133 REB: Anderson - 239, Mobes - 159 AST: Anderson - 152, Mobes - 141 STL: Anderson - 65, Mobes - 63 BLK: Anderson - 22, Mobes - 17 TO: Anderson - 111, Mobes - 115 So, when Mobley is not hitting his shots, what else does he do? Anderson usually doesn't get the big numbers, but he produces in many different ways regardless of if he's feeling it from outside. ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.
Dreamer, you have some good points, and I have always thought that about Shandon. I love his D as well. Mobes is a good defender, but no where as smart of a defender as SA.
SirSmegster, First of all, showing that Mobley scores over 15 and under 15 roughly an equal number of times doesn't show consistency, it *may* actually do the opposite -- prove inconsistent scoring. Think about it... based on your numbers I can almost guarantee Shandon will score between 0-15 pts consistently (there's about a 70-80% probability of that from the data), I have no idea what Mobley will score based on your data. There's about a 50% chance he'll score above or below 15 pts. Without getting too geeky, to calc consistency the way you did, you'd need to use a standard deviation calculation. Again, Mobley may still come out ahead, but it would be more definitive. Since you said the whole point of your thread was to prove scoring (in)consistency, I won't get into anything else. ------------------ trade them all and fire the coach.
I just ran the numbers through a spreadsheet and found out that Mobley's point-standard deviation is indeed a bit lower than Anderson's (6.5 vs. 7.4). One thing I noticed, however, is although Mobley and Anderson average near-identical minutes (31 vs. 31.5 respectively), Mobley gets more consistent minutes. For those who give a flip, standard deviation basically measures how far the numbers in a set of numbers deviate from the average (actually the "mean") of those numbers. These numbers all point to one thing... we need to trade Mobley. ------------------ trade them all and fire the coach.
The Dr. is in...nice work. You could take your calculations one step further and actually control for any number of variables - e.g., number of minutes played/game, fga, etc. That would give us a "pure" measure of efficiency to compare the two. For example, just quickly perusing the stats posted earlier, seems like Mobley has taken 200 shots more than Anderson...yikes! Mobley may be (marginally) more CONSISTENT than Anderson, simply because he's not shy about putting up shots and therefore more likely to reach his avg. ppg. On the other hand, Anderson may be a much more efficient scorer. I wouldn't want to enter the data, but could do the statistics if it were readily available. Whether prolific is "better" than efficient, well, that comes down to opinion I think.
There you have it. Shooting %, tells a lot about who takes better shots. Mobes is too often out of control and forces up awful shots. But he tries.
All good points but it is worth remembering that you have to shoot to score, and to me it seems bizarre the way Anderson is just content to not shoot the ball, it is much easier for a team to guard 5 player when one of them isn't even looking to score. Also I think mobley make up for his lower shooting percentage by getting to the FT line. Another comparison just to throw out their is Mobley has outscored Anderson in 33 of the 53 games, with 1 game equal and Anderson ahead in 19. Also Mobley D is highly underrated. All i really wanted to show, and the numbers don't lie is that Anderson scoring production is either a big game or next to zero and if my memory is correct we all whinged like hell last year about the scoring production of you know you, when he was scoring just as little as Anderson and in my mind was also playing D, and getting assists and boards, the same things i am reminded Anderson does.
Ohh Yeah DoD, good point about consistancy, maybe I should change my wording and say Anderson consistantly scores bugger all
IMO, we need them both. They both serve separate purposes, and are able to exploit different things. Anderson's shot and drives sucked twice against SA...but it is unlikely both men will suck back-to-back. Especially in a playoff series when the coaches have time to show what they can do differently. Sure enough, both didn't suck Sunday and we beat SA to even the score!! <font size=-3>until the refs stole it from us</font> [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited February 21, 2000).]
Outseam, I've wanted to do something like a statistical analysis of player stats for the longest time, but my work schedule basically kills it. Unfortunately, the "efficiency" of player scoring isn't that easy to calculate. Efficiency almost empirically boils down to "what have you done each time you've touched the ball"? Too many variables to account for. For example, John Stockton is a great assist man, how would you factor in his assists to say someone like Alan Iverson's points? Both players' play leads to large point production, but how would you weight a FG vs. an assist? A good scorer nowadays averages more than twice as many assists as a good assist man. If you haven't seen me post about it already, check out one man's attempt to "statify" basketball : http://www.tsoft.net/~deano/about/welcome.html Click on the "Methods" link for several of his methods of scoring things such as player efficiency. BTW, the stats are easy enough to get if you want the "usual" stats such as FG, FGA, Pts, Mins, etc. ------------------ trade them all and fire the coach.
Smegmeister Don't worry, I knew what you were getting at. Mobley is a more explosive scorer and there are times I wonder why Anderson can't score more. I watch him go off for 27 and 32 points and then go for 10, 12, or 8 points in other games and wonder why he can't bring it to all games. I just don't think he's up there on the options list for this offense (could be wrong about that) or he's just not comfortable going for his shots. The proof is that he's a good shooter (45%), but he takes so few shots (comparitively speaking). This is not so bad, and I can point back into history and tell you a combination we had that was similar. A combination that also almost won a championship : Mitchell Wiggins and Lew Lloyd. There's room for a defensive player and a one-on-one/explosive player. The only thing I've questioned about Mobley is his shot selection at times. In summary, the numbers and stats show that Mobley is a slightly more consistent points-per-game player, but superficially speaking, and as Outseam said, not necessarily a very efficient one. It would require further number crunching to arrive at the answer to who's more efficient. Nice topic, btw. ------------------ trade them all and fire the coach. [This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited February 21, 2000).]
DrofSmeg Another point you neglected to mention is that Andy starts, and runs with the big dogs and is not the focal point of the offense. Cat on the other hand runs with the second team a lot of the time and is the focal point. He has a lot more touches of the ball,therefore more shot opportunities.
DrofBobFinn, Good point, but it appears only relevant to the first half of games, as the big dogs also play the 4th quarter when Mobley is in and in alot of games Anderson has not been in. It is good to see of late they are both in in the last quarter, when your best 5 should be on the floor. [This message has been edited by SmeggySmeg (edited February 21, 2000).]
I am not going to open up the stat's books or any thing like that. I am not trying to convince anyone who is better who. I really like almost all of our players. I just have to state what is obvious to me, that Shandon has become the unheralded heart of the Rockets. He is the hustle of the team. Who do you see busting his butt running back on defense when Mobley or Francis turn the ball over, Shandon! Our defense might not be that good but it isn't from lack of trying on Shandon's part. Night in, Night out Shandon guards the best player, aside from the 7 footers, that the other team has. Even with that he still puts up the stats that helps the team. You rarely see Shandon do anything that hurts the team; he simply hustles and makes plays. It might be Stevies team but Shandon is quickly becoming my favorite Rocket, aside from Hakeem of course.
I agree Mizery. Andy does all the little things that don't show up in da boxscore. Just wish he scored more consistently. [This message has been edited by BobFinn* (edited February 21, 2000).]
Smeggy: Thank you for posting something that required a moments pondering. I thought all I was going to get from the board today was musings about exclamation points and smilie faces. ------------------ The truth is out there.
Dr of Dunk, Your post about what the player does when he touches the ball was a very interesting approach to the question, so I did a quick bit of number-crunching. Without giving a bias towards any facet of the game, I tried to tabulate all the touches a player has on the offensive end that are recorded on the box score. I have therefore included shots made and missed, assists, turnovers, free throw attempts (divided by two), and offensive rebounds. Giving all but FTA a value of one, I've worked out the "touches" per game, the positive "touches" per game, and so on. Anyway makes quite interesting reading ... <pre> Touches +ve -ve Diff Barkley 23.66 15.34 8.32 7.03 Francis 30.28 18.03 12.25 5.78 Rogers 12.60 7.94 4.66 3.29 Cato 11.05 7.05 4.00 3.05 Miller 7.81 5.25 2.56 2.69 Anderson 16.72 9.57 7.15 2.42 Thomas 12.83 7.53 5.30 2.24 Olajuwon 16.34 9.11 7.23 1.89 Gray 4.59 3.14 1.45 1.68 Mobley 19.57 10.34 9.23 1.11 Norris 6.00 3.50 2.50 1.00 Williams 12.65 6.63 6.02 0.61 Massenburg 6.30 3.40 2.90 0.50 Drew 10.94 5.72 5.23 0.49 Bullard 8.60 4.20 4.40 -0.20 Hamilton 6.07 2.80 3.27 -0.48 Hurley 3.75 1.50 2.25 -0.75 </pre> I know that this is nowhere near perfect, since a 50% FG shooter, who didn't rebound, assist, turnover or draw fouls would have a differential of zero, but it rates SA above Cat. Any ideas for a different approach much appreciated.
Explain this, i listened to tonights game v Hornets and not once in the second half did I hear Anderson name?????????
