1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Russ has been bad - but he also hasn't been given a chance

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by foggy94, Dec 4, 2019.

  1. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    53,790
    Likes Received:
    111,506
    This and it is futile to try and make Russ something he is not. He will never shoot a basketball well. He can pass well, he can run well and he can finish well. If we are not going to make moves to highlight his strengths, then having him play minutes is a waste of time.
     
    justtxyank and slothy420 like this.
  2. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    53,790
    Likes Received:
    111,506
    Honestly, this is far more on the front office and ownership and not on the coach or the player.

    When the Rockets traded for Westbrook (Tillman's new toy) the front office and ownership knew he did not fit with all the other pieces on the roster.

    Further both the GM and the owner knew a 31 year old star that has never shot well would not suddenly learn to shoot.

    Further both the GM and owner knew that in order for the offense to work (it was an elite offense) the Rockets needed players that could shoot the ball to open up spacing and open the lane. Ownership and the GM knew Westbrook could not shoot and Capela and Westbrook together would really destroy spacing.

    The GM gets some degree of a pass because he never wanted the trade, and he foolishly believed he would be able to sign and trade for pieces that would allow for Westbrook's shooting to not be as big an issue.

    The owner seems to think that he can shove a whale through the eye of a needle..... it doesn't work........ it never has worked in the NBA and it isn't going to work this time.

    So everyone complaining about Westbrook and MDA and even Harden are not looking at the ROOT of the problem.

    A good GM gives his coaches players that will allow him to succeed.

    A good owner gives his GM the ability to get the pieces needed to build a team that can succeed.

    If the owner isn't competent, then the whole thing will collapse...... the only thing keeping this whole thing from collapsing is having the best player in the world. He can push the Rockets past a lot of bad teams, but if the pieces do not fit, then it is all a waste.
     
    Deuce, slothy420 and YOLO like this.
  3. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    10,869
    Likes Received:
    11,796
    Reading all this and I pretty much agree.

    But all it really sounds like to me is that to be really good with Westbrook is too much of a headache to make work.

    Just not worth it. He’s not good enough.
     
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    53,790
    Likes Received:
    111,506
    The Rockets have no choice but to make it work.

    Westbrook is all but untradeable and Harden is in his prime.

    The owner is not going to rebuild at this point (claims he may never)

    So the only option is to make it work.

    That requires a guy that can play the 4/5 and shoot well from the outside and a wing or two that can defend, run the floor and shoot 35% on open 3's.

    The sad thing is that the Rockets GM had a deal for the 4/5 (JaMychal Green) but the owner sat on the deal until it was too late. Green is now shooting nearly 40% from 3.... is getting 8/7 in 20 minutes a night. He would have been an excellent fit and Capela, Tucker and Green would split 96 minutes between the 3 of them. Instead he have three players taking one roster spot (Chandler/Hartenstein/Clark) and are doing a piss poor job because they do not have skills that match what the Rockets need. In the same trade the Rockets were going to get Garrett Temple, who is a little small at 6'5" but he can defend, play three positions and shoot three pointers.

    Basically Morey had the Rockets needs filled before ownership drug their feet!

    That doesn't even get into losing players like Hollis-Jefferson over only a few hundred thousand dollars.
     
    Os Trigonum and HP3 like this.
  5. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,575
    Likes Received:
    35,637
    The fact that ownership knows Westbrooks limitations and how that limits the team AND won't spend to fix the limitations is sadly laughable.
     
    DaDakota likes this.
  6. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,575
    Likes Received:
    35,637
    JFC. Tilman. :mad:
     
    Nook likes this.
  7. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 1999
    Messages:
    13,455
    Likes Received:
    14,342
    Russ has to be held accountable, but we all knew that MDA was going to have to make adjustments to make this work ...and i do not see that he's made any. What's done is done. Russ is on our team making max money. Now he, James and coach need to do a better job of making the adjustments to make this work. That is their job. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't mean that it couldn't have worked; it means they failed to make it work. Even if Russ isn't a perfect fit, he can still be a big contributor. Right now he's not contributing much. That's on Russ and coach.
     
    smp likes this.
  8. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,474
    Likes Received:
    44,649
    and here we are stuck for the next 4 years. dark times for Rockets fans when it shouldn't be with Harden in his prime
     
  9. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 1999
    Messages:
    13,455
    Likes Received:
    14,342
    As i watch our crap iso offense in which guys just stand around and pick their asses while someone over-dribbles, and as i watch Russ Westbrook jack up shots without any discipline or efficiency ...i can't help but think some of this is on Coach. lol Or else ...why even have a coach?
     
    smp likes this.
  10. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    53,790
    Likes Received:
    111,506

    How would this line up perform?

    Westbrook/Gordon/Harden/Clemmons
    Harden/Gordon/Rivers/McLemore
    House/Temple/Hollis-Jefferson
    Tucker/Green/Hollis-Jefferson
    Capela/Green/Chandler

    Active roster
    Harden
    Westbrook
    Capela
    Gordon
    Tucker
    House
    Green
    Temple
    Hollis-Jefferson
    Rivers
    McLemore
    Chandler

    That is a team that goes 10 deep....... that can put all shooters on the floor (Harden/Gordon/House/Tucker/Green) and can also go defensive (Rivers/Harden/Hollis-Jefferson/Tucker/Capela).

    They could go big or small and surround Westbrook with all shooters even.

    Instead we have...... what we have.

    Thanks Tillman.
     
    TheRealist137 and Deuce like this.
  11. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    20,368
    Likes Received:
    16,523
    Makes me want to egg Tilmans house
     
    Deuce likes this.
  12. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    10,869
    Likes Received:
    11,796
    Currently we have about 105 possessions per game.

    Currently we use about 23 of them on isolation plays where we score 1.00 points per possession

    In the 14 or so that Harden is handling we are scoring 1.10 points per possession.

    These numbers are better than most if not all half court offenses.

    Westbrook has been jacking up shots without any discipline his entire career. He is uncoachable. Russ is going to Russ.
     
    YOLO likes this.
  13. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,474
    Likes Received:
    44,649
    this is the thing with people's "eyetest" that just assume this and that is happening. it's just pure laziness to think the problem with Russ and his play is directly all on coach. Nah, it starts with Russ first and foremost. Until he can learn to fix himself and adjust, it doesn't really matter what else is around him
     
    #113 YOLO, Dec 5, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  14. smp

    smp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,714
    Likes Received:
    2,994
    If MDA has a plan, and Westbrook refuses to implement it (which I hope is the case), he has no choice but bench him. That is 100 percent on every head coach in every sport. I have seen players much better than Westbrook benched for not following the game plan.

    Westbrook can’t take ANY shots or make ANY boneheaded plays from the bench. It really is that simple.

    If Tilman fires him for benching a player who runs out of control then so be it.
     
  15. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,474
    Likes Received:
    44,649
    once you again you act like westbrick is some minimum player where you can just bench and nobody gives af. reality check that ain't happening, especially not Harden's dancing bff and all they gave up to get him

    yeah im gonna bench a super max westbrook lol ok. This isn't your local rec center or ymca playing with kids
    [​IMG]
     
  16. nemac

    nemac Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    300
    Cleverly disguised bring harden off the bench thread.
     
  17. smp

    smp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,714
    Likes Received:
    2,994
    Like I said, far better players than Westbrook have been benched for not following the game plan.

    You really expect much less from the head coach than I do. Now I finally understand your position.

    Coaches need to coach. Player running wild and jeopardizing the team you bench him. Period.

    We definitely disagree on this one.
     
  18. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,474
    Likes Received:
    44,649
    I would love to see examples where guys were benched for extended periods and over multiple games. and super max players at that who despite being a fake one is considered an "mvp"

    just off the top of my head on recent mvp winners, I'd love to hear when guys like giannis, harden, curry, kd, lebron, kobe, nash, d rose, dirk were benched for extended periods and over multiple games.
     
  19. smp

    smp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,714
    Likes Received:
    2,994
    I didn’t say bench him for extended periods over multiple games. Now you are just making stuff up.
     
  20. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,474
    Likes Received:
    44,649
    then why are you even in this discussion. don't bring up benching if it isn't even significant
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now