[Ringer] 30 Facts that Will Make or Break the Harden-Westbrook Rockets

My primary point is that when they share the court, you mainly want Harden handling the ball simply because he’s the better player.

I wouldn’t get too fixated on Westbrook’s lack of shooting. He can help in other ways off ball, and he's not bad in the corners.

Im not saying Harden would only play PG. Westbrook would get his touches, and they would do some trading off as Harden and CP3 did. But Harden is the better player, and should get more touches, and Westbrook is not completely ineffective off ball.

 

I didn't say they had bad shooters, I said ours are better. When the OKC (minus Russ and PG13 included) attempt significantly fewer 3 point shoots and still barely out shoot us (minus Harden) then we have better shooters plain and simple.

Paul George attempted by far the most 3s on the OKC, what are the numbers without Paul George and Russ...... ? Whoops....

Fun with statistics!

 

Harden still gets touches with Russ as the PG. Probably even more with a broken down defense and he actually moved, and you could run some great PnR with Russ and James together. James is the better player, but not with westbrook as the 2 guard. Your turn my turn isnt going to work. Westbrook has no gravity on the court. It was accepted with Harden because someone came out to guard him even when he wasnt in the play. 4 on 4 spaced floor. Doesnt work that way with westbrook as the 2 guard. Then its 4 on 5 since westbrook wont be taken seriously as a perimeter threat

I want to see this with westbrook bringing up the ball. But not missing the shots of course. But the idea behind it.

 

Ah, the old “if they’re better, it means we’re actually better!” Always a fan favorite.

 

It's even worse when you subtract Paul George, who shot 38% on a career high 757 3PA playing next to Russ. Sorry dude.

 

Fun fact... Eric Gordon has averaged 8.8 3PA per game for the last three seasons according to bball reference.

 

It won't be easy to get good picks from trading aging Harden and Westbrook, especially Westbrook.

 

You've got nothing to apologize for except completely missing the point.

The comparison of the two teams three point shooting skill was based on the Ringer stat that's been pasted here a couple time now: It’s not true, as the common perception might suggest, that Westbrook will be playing with more capable targets for his passes in Houston than he did in Oklahoma City. Over the past three seasons, the most common non-Westbrook 3-point shooters for the Thunder succeeded on about 38 percent of their catch-and-shoot 3s—the same as the players now on Houston’s roster over the same period.

That's comparing Westbrook's 2018-19 teammates with his 2019-10 teammates, so subtracting George makes no sense at all. Of course Houston has better shooters than OKC now, the Thunder are in full rebuild mode and lost George, Grant, and will probably lose others.

 

I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about last year. You're missing my point, that the OKC were skewed by Paul George's MVP caliber season until he got injured. It's crazy to think with how far Harden and Gordon shoot the 3 from with that volume.. then you got Tucker in the corner.... House lurking beyond the arc...Come on now... I like Zac Kram but the Rockets lineup is better suited for shooting.

 

I dont know how else to say it more plainly, not all uncontested 3's are the same.

Houston's system plus the gravity from Harden generates space that is unique to the Rockets.

Rockets (e.g. Harden, EGo, Ryno, Gerald, etc.) set up so far beyond the arc that defenders are almost too far away to really contest.

Additionally Harden's step backs/side step 3's create space that are near impossible to contest without fouling.

 

WB does have gravity, just not as much beyond the arc.

But he will draw a crowd when he dives toward basket, with or without the ball.

 

moon gravity isnt basketball gravity

 

Came here to say this. Thank god you beat me to it.

 

"The comparison of the two teams three point shooting skill was based on the Ringer stat that's been pasted here a couple time now: It’s not true, as the common perception might suggest, that Westbrook will be playing with more capable targets for his passes in Houston than he did in Oklahoma City. Over the past three seasons, the most common non-Westbrook 3-point shooters for the Thunder succeeded on about 38 percent of their catch-and-shoot 3s—the same as the players now on Houston’s roster over the same period."

This type of stat is misleading because the Rockets shot an absurd # of uncontested 3 pointers relative to the Thunder, and like another poster mentioned, our offense is designed to take long 3 pointers that won't be contested. The argument should take into consideration the degree of volume as well (for example if the Rockets took 20 uncontested 3's at 37% success, that would likely be far superior than Thunder taking 10 uncontested 3's at 38%).

I expect RWB to take a much lesser role with Harden on the court, and make up for it by being an absolute usage machine for the 11-13 minutes he will play with Harden on the bench. There may also be times where it's justifiable to not even have RWB on the court for the final few minutes of a game, but I doubt that will happen very often.

The main issue with him will be with the pick and rolls where the primary defender can sag, daring him to take the 3 or even worse, the mid range jumper. It will take some very creative offensive schemes to allow him to do what he does best in half court, which is drive to the basket over and over. He will provide an upgrade over CP3 in the transition game, though, and may develop more of a post up game.

 

You seem to be looking really hard for reasons to discount the numbers and claim the Rockets are better. I get it, you're a fan and all, but I'm sticking to the facts here.

 

Likewise, you seem to be looking really hard to discount Russ and have latched on to a cherry picked fact.

Without Paul George, the OKC shooters ain’t that good and shoot significantly less 3 pointers. We are swapping out Paul George for Harden and adding a better supporting cast. I’m sorry that the Rockets have a roster that fits moreso, but that’s just the facts.

There are legitimate concerns with Russ but having a better roster isn’t one since we checked that off.

 

This. It just takes a lack of bias to see through such a simple argument.

 

I've liked houston's roster over okc's for sure but there's actually posts on this board making cases for okc's supporting cast being better than houston. something that constantly got flipped back and forth depending on what day it was and whether the rockets came off a win or not

 

Sigh. You keep missing the point entirely. Never mind.