[Ringer] 30 Facts that Will Make or Break the Harden-Westbrook Rockets

I get the trepidation around switching out Paul for Westbrook. The reasons for concern are warranted. That being said, using Houston's experience with Melo to forecast how Westbrook might fail here is a bit of a reach don't you think?

One guy was CLEARLY on the tail end of his career and we were hoping to catch some lightning in the bottle while the other guy is still an All-Star level player, inefficiencies and all.

I am no fan of Westbrook but, for me, the endgame is this: We most likely reached our ceiling with Chris Paul. There's little evidence that can show that, at age 34 coming off missing 48 games over the past two seasons, Chris can recapture what he brought this team in 2017-2018. Has the ceiling been elevated with Westbrook's acquisition? That's not a guarantee but at least there's a possibility that it could be. The probability of Chris Paul being an effective 2nd Banana for the duration of his contract is a lot lower than Westbrook's. I guess that's what I'm intrigued about--we are basically trying to extend a championship window while Harden is still in his prime. Not everyone agrees with me but I do not want to see 20-30 games next year where Harden has to keep on trying to hit 40, 50, 60 points in order for us to win because our 2nd best player has to sit out with injuries. Westbrook has been pretty damn durable the past 4 seasons.

 

The schnozzberries taste like schnozzberries.

Kind of sure that an uncontested three is pretty much an uncontested three anywhere with the caveat that they are actually being attempted by quality shooters and not chuckers. Given that the kind of players that can't shoot 3s were not shooting them for the Thunder, except Westbrook, then the Rockets being better spacers would only mean more attempts.

Subtracting Westbrook from the equation, they shot 3s better than the Rockets and on par with the Warriors.

 

Good article - I will say the one glaring omission here is to account for pace. The more possessions a team gets in a game, the more opportunities for their 3pt shooting to make a difference overall in the game - it's a strategy that is more effective with worse shooters if you get more shots up. CP slowed our pace down considerably but you can bet that WB won't be slowing it down at all and if that means as a team we manage to squeeze in an extra 5 possessions a game including a few easy fast break points - that does move the needle a bit.

Another point I'm not hearing be discussed is playing in the penalty - Harden draws a lot of fouls on his own and so does Westbrook - does that mean these guys combined are going to get to the line even more because they will be playing in the penalty more often? I know that is dangerous because refs tend to change it up entirely on a whim(especially in the playoffs) but how does a few extra cheap FTs effect our team overall?

....I am expecting a drop in defensive quality but the question is do the extra possessions and shooting in the penalty make Houston a better team overall or not. Keep in mind - Westbrook is in general a MUCH better one on one player than CP3 at this stage in his career so you expect some quick gains there.

Anyway - it's a gamble for sure.

 

Ok I thought you were trying to be logical and unbiased about this but after that statement it seems you are not.

Who other than George was a consistent threat from 3?

 

All I was saying, he might be changing but the most possible area is the usage rate and him holding onto the ball a tad less while both are on the court.

I think he will increase his 3 pointers, that is probably for certain.

He will realize he had much more freedom in OKC in terms of shooting and minutes.....might or might not miss it.

'Everyone is so methodical in H-Tine!' .......

He is younger and overall better than CP3 but CP3 was a better fit, you knew beforehand, even when Harden was going nuclear and not even sharing touches with CP.

I think now that part of CP's decline is due to Father time but the other part is the beef between him and Harden, and there was hidden resentment. (Competed yet wasn't happy.)

Rivers might get his minutes reduced.

 

I mean their guys shot as well as our guys just didn’t shoot as much. Jerami Grant shot better than any of our shooters didn’t he?

 

This makes no sense more attempts means better spacing.

 

He said in he "would tweak it" -D antoni

 

Great post I had not thought about the FT angle.

 

Grant, Ferguson, Schroder at least.

 

oh i wasn't using melo as the end to all, to show that wb is going to fail. it was just a reference of the space logic. he wasn't the only guy people wanted to use the space logic with here. but again the space logic works for guys who can at least possess the tools to maximize it's actual use

for me, the rockets were still an elite team with cp3. and with GS dynasty going down for at least a year, I'm in the same boat of not doing this deal in the first place but as time goes by I'm slowly realizing we just have to hope for the best now that it's done. But that's not going to just put a stop to a lot of these concerns that I know you and many others have as well. The immediate outlook is just a little different atm.

 

He did not shoot as much and that's only 3 guys and 1 of them was usually not playing with Russ.

And not shooting as much is big part of the equation, if shooters are reluctant to shoot defenders will back off clogging the lane.

Remember when Anderson got gun shy about shooting?

 

Didn’t I already point out that the volume matters? I’m not sure what you want from me?

 

Are you really trying to say Ferguson was a consistent threat?

And Schroeder came off the bench meaning he was not usually playing with Russ.

Russ will always be playing with more and better threats around him than Grant and Ferguson

 

That's one guy and he did not shoot at volume.

So that's only 2 guys in the the starting lineup who could be considered threats.

Who else was Russ holding back?

 

He played with George Ferguson and grant a lot. Did you watch their games? In the playoffs the Blazers literally designed their strategy around guarding shooters and sagging off Russ and hoping he’d shoot

 

You not claiming that Russ was the the most important factor in them not having spacing.

 

lol @pippendagimp just another day

 

Well, he took 3.9 a game and hit 37% of them, so yeah, he WAS a consistent threat.

Westbrook and Schroeder played about 1200 minutes together last season, or about 17/game. That means they were together on the court for almost half of Westbrook's minutes. That's significant.

I understand you believe that Houston offers better three-point threats than Grant, Ferguson, etc (and you have to include George in the OKC group too for the comparison to hold up), but the Ringer article points out that the statistics do not back up that belief.

 

That's not at all what the article pointed out it said most common shooter not team.

It's amazing that you and others are now trying to say that OKC has as much shooting and spacing as the Rockets.

Really?