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Republican Leaning Orlando Sentinel's endorsement for president in 2020: Not Donald Trump

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Deckard, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    This and the comparison to Trump supporters who say they don’t support Trump but defend his every move is laughable.

    Many of us on the left would never do that with a Dem candidate. Not having that much loyalty to anyone wearing out team colors likely contributed to Hillary not having the support she needed for turnout in 2016.

    There are simply much higher standards to earn undying cult like support that Trump gets simply because he is not a Democrat (even though he used to be and is an extreme socialist in many ways ie Farmer bailouts and tariffs). Obama didn’t even have that level of cult like support, and if anyone should have it was him. By far the best president of my lifetime.

    I (as I’m sure you are too) am completely open to criticizing Bernie. I support many of his policies and consider many of them north stars to try and achieve, but like you said his flaw is his idealism with realistic legislation that can actually get passed through Congress. IMO Liz Warren is basically Bernie for grown ups. No reason why with enough time, voters that would naturally be attracted to Bernie’s platform will put their support behind Warren because of her solid portfolio of well thought out policies.

    Now imagine a Trump supporter ever saying something like that about Trump. Would never happen. The answer is always and only Trump. Never once has a poster like the usual suspects here ever said “you know... Pence could actually do a better job since Trump is ineffective here and there”. The fake independence from Trump undying support is what really makes me want to throw up in my mouth.
     
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  2. txtony

    txtony Member

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    To those that think that way - he is doing exactly what he said he is doing, you are both right and wrong. Some voted for him because the lesser of two evil, right? Some voted for him hoping that he is just campaigning, but wouldn't actually execute on some of his extreme views. Some voted for him because exactly of his views. So he would absolutely keep his core voters, but the others --- those that weren't necessary for him, but is against the other candidate, and those that were hopeful that he would shift a bit toward actual being Presidential --- absolutely could decide to not vote for him again.

    He barely won and won by the thinnest margin. If in fact he has the exact same voters, the other candidate just need to re-calibrate where they focus their energy, turn out new voters or persuade more to vote and done. But of course things aren't so neat and clean.
     
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  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Fake News from the "John McCain" wing of the RINOs.

    Get that trash out of here, who cares what these wannabe liberal scum think. They are the swamp and we will crush them!

    MAGA!!! TRUMP 2020 & 2024 & 2028!!! Lock the Pedophile Biden up!
     
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  4. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    You sound like a far left Alex Jones. I have to admit, this post made me laugh. Keep it up.
     
  5. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    FIFY
     
  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I don't understand this notion where Trump supporting posters here believe that for Trump to lose, he needs to lose support in his base. He did win by the thinnest of margins. If you tally up the margin of victory for all the swing states Trump won in, it's in the thousands, not millions.

    Trump can easily lose based on only on change in voter turnout of different groups.
     
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  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    What will Trump do with MAGA?

    If his slogan is Make America Great Again? Does that mean he failed to make it great in his first 4 years? Or will he change it to KAGA?
     
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  8. txtony

    txtony Member

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    i think it has to do with a recurring theme of the Trump brand --- it's all fake news; polling is fake news; winning by thinnest margin is fake news...

    call me crazy, but that itself isn't just a strategy, but a reason to be used at sometime to defy and oppose a result that Trump wouldn't accept
     
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  9. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    With all due respect it's puzzling to see you condemn trolls yet praise the two biggest trolls and currently the worst posters on here as ones whom you hold with respect and seek out their opinion. Os is the new Basso, and he has even claimed to being a troll with his posts. And dachuda is the new bobbythegreat.
     
  10. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    In support of your post (and this is something that has been widely commented on - here in D&D, by me and several other members, something @dachuda86 somehow missed) Mr trump "won" by about 77,000 votes. This is from The Weekly Standard and reflects the final vote totals in 2016.

    Donald Trump owes his victory in the Electoral College to three states he won by the smallest number of votes: Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan. So it's fair to say that the 2016 presidential election was decided by about 77,000 votes out of than 136 million ballots cast. According to the final tallies, Trump won Pennsylvania by 0.7 percentage points (44,292 votes), Wisconsin by 0.7 points (22,748 votes), Michigan by 0.2 points (10,704 votes). If Clinton had won all three states, she would have won the Electoral College 278 to 260. She fell short in all three, of course, and that's why we are now getting accustomed to the reality of President-elect Donald J. Trump. (This article has been updated to reflect final results.)

    www.weeklystandard.com/john-mccormack/the-election-came-down-to-77-744-votes-in-pennsylvania-wisconsin-and-michigan-updated


    One can easily make the argument, and it is one I strongly believe, that Russia and her intelligence agency, which Putin was a high ranking member of when it was called the KGB, influenced the vote enough to make the difference.

    The argument can also be made, also an argument I strongly believe, that had Ms Clinton run even a decent campaign for the nation's highest office, the influence of Russia on the 2016 election wouldn't have been enough to prevent a Clinton victory. That doesn't change the fact that Mr trump eagerly in private and publicly at a campaign rally asked for Russia's help. A mere 5 hours later, and this is in the Mueller Report, Russia gave it to him by making the "30,000 emails" public. This deliberate "leak" by Russian intelligence, documented in the Mueller Report, was highly effective in damaging Ms Clinton's campaign.

    Also, and this is something claimed right after the election, Mr trump lied about the "3,000,000 votes cast against him by fraud." The liar, and that's been proven to be what trump is, trump being who @dachuda86 and others constantly defend here, despite claiming not to have voted for him, and despite trump's obsession with lying, lied about this.

    Explanation below:

    From The New York Times (and plenty of other sources)

    By Jonathan Martin
    • Jan. 27, 2017
    • WASHINGTON — To support his call for a sweeping federal inquiry into his claims of vast voting fraud, President Trump turned on Friday to a little-known conservative activist whose work on the issue has been widely discredited and who has trafficked in conspiracy theories.

    “Gregg Phillips and crew say at least 3,000,000 votes were illegal,” Mr. Trump wrote on Twitter, a reference to a claim by Mr. Phillips, who helped create an app to report voter fraud, that he had “verified” such irregularities. With those words, Mr. Trump bestowed the imprimatur of the presidency on new ground: the feverish online fringes of American politics.

    In elevating Mr. Phillips, who last month on Twitter cited “spook friends” to claim that “the Israelis impersonated the Russians” and interfered in the American election, Mr. Trump returned to a familiar pattern.

    After a campaign in which he gave voice to outlandish falsehoods, including claims that Justice Antonin Scalia was suffocated by a pillow and Senator Ted Cruz’s father had a connection to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, Mr. Trump has not left his penchant for conspiracy-mongering at the White House door.


    And he is fixated on an issue that he raged about both during the campaign and in the weeks after his victory: the integrity of the country’s voting procedures. After his loss by about three million votes in the popular vote, and the questions about his legitimacy that have followed, he is now pushing for an investigation that could cost millions of dollars.

    On Monday, Mr. Trump shocked congressional leaders at a White House reception by recounting a story he said he had heard from Bernhard Langer, a professional golfer, about voters in Florida he assumed to be illegal. (Mr. Langer later said that he had never talked to Mr. Trump about voting, but had only passed along an anecdote he had heard from a friend to another friend, “who shared it with a person with ties to the White House.”)


    On Wednesday, the president explained on prime-time television why he had lost the popular vote. “Of those votes cast, none of them come to me,” Mr. Trump told ABC News about what he has called millions of illegal votes. “They would all be for the other side.”

    And then, early Friday, he saw a segment on CNN’s early-morning show in which Mr. Phillips argued without evidence that as many as three million people had voted illegally. “Look forward to seeing final results of VoteStand,” Mr. Trump wrote on Twitter 47 minutes after the CNN interview, referring to Mr. Phillips’s app. “Gregg Phillips and crew say at least 3,000,000 votes were illegal. We must do better!”

    Election experts aligned with both major parties say that no such mass election fraud took place.

    “We are not aware of any evidence that supports the voter fraud claims made by President Trump, but we are open to learning more about the administration’s concerns,” the National Association of Secretaries of State said in a statement.

    www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/donald-trump-voter-fraud.html
     
  11. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    I am beginning to think that Trump voters are getting overconfident and think Trump has some magic fairy dust.

    He has done nothing to increase his electorate and has definitely lost some.
     
  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Trump cares more about filling up stadiums and having overflow outside than actually expanding his voter base.
     
  13. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    That also seems to dwindling.
     
  14. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    Remember when Trump promised that he could be more Presidential than any President except Lincoln?

    I'm going to go ahead and mark this one pretty strongly in the "promise not kept" category.
     
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  15. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    No such thing as presidential. What that means is dry and plays it safe. There have been much wilder presidents than Trump. Go look at Teddy and Jackson for starters.

    But lol at the last part. So true.
     
  16. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I think what he means by presidential is when he speaks, he only isn't speaking directly to his base.

    Trump is probably the first president who only panders to his base and pits his base against the rest of us Americans. He labels Democrats and their supporters are wanting to destroy America. Now obviously there are non politician Democrat supporters who think the same of the GOP but you wouldn't hear Obama characterize Republicans as wanting to destroy America. Bush Jr wouldn't dare say that Democrats want to destroy the nation.
     
  17. jcf

    jcf Member
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    you may be right, but politics has always been a nasty business. I think there are periods where it is at least more polite on the surface than others.

    We are living in an era when politicians have their knives out to capitalize on anything.

    I didn't think much of Clinton's "deplorables" comment. I don't think much of Trump's personal attacks on well frankly almost everyone.

    Biden took a lot of heat for his "civility" comments because he was explaining how he could pragmatically work with racists that he vehemently disagreed with.

    If the country is going to steer back to a more workable system of governance, I think (fwiw) that we are really going to need elected officials who can quit pandering to their respective bases and put in place some legislation that we need.

    Our system was set up to force compromise and keep balance. Everyone seems to be trying to play a winner take all game these days.
     
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  18. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Gee, I wonder why people are agreeing. It doesn't have to do with the modern day professional complainers on the left. Also all politicians pander to their base. Obama did too.
     
  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I think you are well aware that these things are a gradient and not a binary scale.

    Trump panders to his base at an unprecidented level and actively calls half the country having a desire to destroy the nation.
     
  20. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    You really aren't going to sell me on Hillary "play it safe" Clinton pandering to liberals. She was as establishment safe as one could and was possibly the main reason why she lost the election as many Democrat voters decided to stay home instead of vote because there was absolutely no excitement for Hillary.

    Obviously there is a gradient here. Politicians have always pandered to their core base during primary season. But they usually get out of that phase by the general election and quit that low hanging fruit pandering to their base by the time they are president like Obama and Bush Jr.
     
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