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[Religion of Intolerance] Muslim Mass Attacks, Mar 13

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Honey Bear, Mar 14, 2016.

  1. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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    Where did you get the idea from that the PKK are non-Muslims? That is a myth propagated by Islamist governments in the region to delegitimize them.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2823777/posts

    Today, the majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslim, belonging to the Shafi school.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds#Religion

    I already said that I agree with you that Islam is not what motivates their particular struggle against the oppression they face. But to say that they are not Muslims is simply factually wrong at best, and parroting the line of ISIS and Erdogan at worst.

    In fact, all I was pointing out and which seemed to have gone completely over your head is that certain posters - not you - repeatedly say that "most victims of ISIS in Iraq and Syria are Muslims", specifically pointing to the fact that the majority of Kurds are Muslims. All I was saying was that while this is factually correct, they conveniently only point it out as an apology tool for Islam when it's about them being victims. When they are the perpetrators, they do not point out that they are Muslims.

    I just gave you facts. You are completely wrong about the PKK not being Muslims. They are.

    Again, you are the one who has his facts wrong. PKK are Kurds. The Kurds are majority Muslims.

    Again, I am not claiming (unlike the OP) that Islam was what was the core motivation behind this particular attack, if it was indeed committed by Kurds.

    But if you keep harping on getting facts straight, read up on the religion of Kurds.
     
  2. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    get back to me when you take off your blinders. tons of unclassified information is out there if you're willing to look. these types of projects are real, have happened, and are still happening.
     
  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    What kind of right-wing kooky stuff are you reading? You think American Universities have been infiltrated by Stalin???

    Please. Dude. Conspiracy theories should be beneath you. You just lost all credibility.
     
  4. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    I sold it for $4.99 to the Geico gecko--but now, I don't fear accidents.
     
  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    It's so bad, Marxist rhetoric is creeping in my Calc 3 and Thermo classes. They're getting us engineering majors now:grin:
     
    #85 fchowd0311, Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
  6. HamJam

    HamJam Contributing Member

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    No, you're incorrect. This is like saying that the majority of Americans are Christian, therefore the anarchist groups I work with must also be christian. It is just wrong. Are some people in the PKK muslim -- sure. Are some of the anarchists and socialists I work with Christian -- also sure, but not very many.

    The PKK it is a formerly Marxist organization, that is currently more influenced by the ideas of Democratic Confederalism outlined by anarchist Murray Bookchin. They are radical feminists. They are specifically opposed to an Islamist society and want a secular society where people of every belief (or nonbelief) are tolerated -- and, in Syria, where they have control over a large multi ethnic and multi religious area, that is exactly the type of communities they have created.

    So, how do I know they aren't a muslim organization -- because I've read the literature of the group's ideological leader Ocalan. I've read the history of the organization. I've followed their actions in Turkey and Syria very closely. I've even thought about going over there and fighting with them like many countrymen and women of yours have -- but decided not to because of my kids.

    Are they tolerant of Islam? Yes. Are there members that are Muslim? Sure. Are they as a group motivated by Islam or is Islam a part of the group's ideology and agenda -- absolutely not.
     
  7. AroundTheWorld

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    HamJam, just keep denying the facts - you incorrectly stated that they are not Muslims. Stop embarrassing yourself.
     
  8. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    good morning everyone , a great day to insult :)

    lets start by saying Brainless of the world , in your limited view the WW2 was a direct clash

    between Stalin a Georgian Orthodox & Adolf Hitler who was a Christian/Nazis just like you
    and Benito Mussolini a catholic & an Episcopalian F. D Roosevelt along with Chiang Kai-shek a Methodist and so on.
     
  9. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    So you are saying you are not tolerant of either of the two greatest prophets in Islam?
     
  10. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    yep! 110%.

    I don't know if you understand my position at all--if you'd have read closely, you'd know that I am very very against organized religion. The difference is that, unlike some people in this thread, I am not selective about my bias--and I don't think killing people is the way to go about killing ideas that deserve to die.

    Oh yes, in case this isn't abundantly clear--I believe both Islam and Christianity are belief systems that must be tamed, defanged, and ultimately destroyed in the marketplace of ideas.
     
  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    But there is a tangible difference between the two religions and it has everything to do with who the most venerated figure for the two faiths are. It's a rather important distinction.

    Who would you be more concerned about? A person who attempts to emulate the life of the Biblical character known as Jesus or a person who attempts to emulate the life of Muhammad?
     
  12. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    well, that depends on whether or not I am a little boy, a genocide victim (Rwanda, Burundi, Bosnia), or a refugee in Greece.

    Speaking for me personally--the statistical risk of being subjected to Islamic terrorism is significantly smaller than the risk of living in a country where Christianity has overtaken the crazy barrier by electing Donald Trump.

    On a global basis, Islam is pulling worse than Christianity--but to kill both in the marketplace of ideas means axing them both out from their same poisonous root.

    Somebody who is acting like the historical Christ is acting like a cult leader who tells their followers "to hate their families to follow him". The more relevant question should be why people feel the need to act like somebody from 2000 years ago in the first place.
     
    #92 Northside Storm, Mar 15, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2016
  13. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    You didn't answer my question. Who would you be more concerned about? Someone who emulated Jesus's life or Muhammad's life?

    You are also jumping the gun with Trump. Even if Trump became president, a system of checks and balances would pretty much hinder 90% of the **** Trump has been campaigning for. There is no equivalency between a homosexual, atheist, woman etc having to live in a Muslim dominant nation vs living in the United States.
     
    #93 fchowd0311, Mar 15, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2016
  14. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Both--they'd be deluded either way. A modern-day Jesus, and we have plenty who have tried, would be a cult leader, and likely a cult leader that would get his followers killed. Muhammed would be a political leader with violent, sadistic, authoritarian impulses. Both of them are terribly flawed personas that anybody with the hindsight of time should see right through.

    But here, to assuage you: I think Muhammed would have more chance of getting political power. I think Jesus would have more chance of getting everybody who followed him killed. The former would be more concerning to me than the latter.

    I'm really not sure what this exercise accomplished for you.
     
  15. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Seeing as I have chosen NOT to live in a Muslim dominant nation (for good f**king reason), I don't see this as being relevant to what I'm personally concerned about. Which is what you asked.

    Yeah, the more secular a country is the better it is. Is this even a question?
     
  16. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I just don't know where you are coming up with these conclusions? By no means do I believe in a literal Jesus that was crucified and resurrected, but his life story fictional or not does not suggest in anyway that he created a suicidal cult of worshipers. If a literal Jesus figure existed today in a secular western government, the most likely outcome would be that they would just be simply ignored.

    And it matters significantly when you understand a significant portion of practicing Islam, especially Sunni Islam, is mimicking the life of Muhammad. Just so you understand to what extent, when I was a practicing Muslim, men, including me would pee sitting on the toilet because Muhammad did not stand and pee. It's considered 'Sunnah'. So you can understand where the danger lies where millions of men emulate a man down to his urinating habits who also had sex with a child, held sex slaves, ordered the assassination of many political dissenters and raided villages that did not agree with his dogma.
     
  17. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Yeah, religious delusion is a f**king mess, but why are you trying to compare s**t with a lesser variant of s**t?

    (though I don't get why pissing sitting down on the toilet is the worst indignity that you can think of tbh)

    In her brilliant essay, "If God is Dead, Is Everything Permitted?" (which can be found in in The Portable Atheist: Essential Readings for the Nonbeliever), Elizabeth Anderson wrote:

    ^that's the life story you're supporting. A cult leader.
     
  18. HamJam

    HamJam Contributing Member

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    I said the PKK was not a Muslim organization and that the terrorist act in Ankara was not motivated by Islam, and that it is therefore ridiculous and demonstrative of people's bias in this conversation when they use that act as an example to criticize Islam.

    If you want to criticize Islam, that is fine, but let's use facts and not straight up bend reality to do so.

    The act in Ankara was not caused by radical Islam -- except, perhaps, it being a partial cause of the issues that the PKK are responding to (since it is part of the ideology of the current Turkish state the PKK is embattled with).

    And anybody who reads up on the PKK will see which of us is actually embarrassing themselves.
     
  19. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    edit...delete
     
  20. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Maybe I'm not conveying my message properly but my point with the example is how nuanced the emulation Muhammad's life is performed my many Muslim men.

    Emulating Muhammad's life allows justification for
    -child marriages
    -holding sex slaves
    -assassinations of political dissenters
    -preemptive invasion for simply disagreeing with you.
     

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