Reckoning with Bill Clinton

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Nov 14, 2017 at 10:15 AM.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    This is a pretty hard hitting and thought provoking piece from the Atlantic. In the wake of all of the recent sexual harrassment scandals I do agree there does need to be a historical assessment of Bill Clinton and particularly how feminists like Gloria Steinmen defended him.

    Speaking personally I think most of you know my posting history and I won't deny that I've been backer of the Clintons. I'm also someone who believes in taking a deeper and honest look at history. I have no doubt this piece might be used regarding the debate of sexual harrassment charges against Trump and Roy Moore but will point out that none of this excuses or should deflect from those other situations.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...ckoning-with-bill-clintons-sex-crimes/545729/

    Bill Clinton: A Reckoning
    Feminists saved the 42nd president of the United States in the 1990s. They were on the wrong side of history; is it finally time to make things right?

    The most remarkable thing about the current tide of sexual assault and harassment accusations is not their number. If every woman in America started talking about the things that happen during the course of an ordinary female life, it would never end. Nor is it the power of the men involved; history instructs us that for countless men, the ability to possess women sexually is not a spoil of power; it’s the point of power. What’s remarkable is that these women are being believed.

    Most of them don’t have police reports or witnesses or physical evidence; many of them are recounting events that transpired years—sometimes decades—ago. In some cases, their accusations are validated by a vague, carefully couched quasi-admission of guilt; in others they are met with outright denial. It doesn’t matter. We believe them. Moreover, we have finally come to some kind of national consensus about the workplace; it naturally fosters a level of romance and flirtation, but the line between those impulses and the sexual predation of a boss is clear.

    Believing women about assault—even if they lack the means to prove their accounts—as well as an understanding that female employees don’t constitute part of a male boss’s benefits package, were the galvanizing consequences of Anita Hill’s historic allegations against Clarence Thomas in 1991. When she came forward during Thomas’s Supreme Court confirmation hearing, and reported that he had sexually humiliated and pressured her throughout his tenure as her boss at the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, it was an event of convulsive national anxiety. Here was a black man, a Republican, about to be appointed to the Supreme Court, and here was a black woman, presumably a liberal, trying to block him with reports of repeated, squalid, and vividly recounted episodes of sexual harassment. She had little evidence to support her accusations. Many believed that since she’d been a lawyer at the EEOC she had been uniquely qualified to have handled such harassment.

    But then something that no one could have predicted happened. It was a pre-Twitter, pre-internet, highly analog version of #MeToo. To the surprise of millions of men, the nation turned out to be full of women—of all political stripes and socioeconomic backgrounds—who’d had to put up with Hell at work. Mothers, sisters, aunts, girlfriends, wives—millions of women shared the experience of having to wait tables, draw blood, argue cases, make sales, all while fending off the groping, the joking, the sexual pressuring, and the threatening of male bosses. They were liberal and conservative; white collar and pink collar; black and white and Hispanic and Asian. Their common experience was not political, economic, or racial. Their common experience was female.

    For that reason, the response to those dramatic hearings constituted one of the great truly feminist events of the modern era. Even though Thomas successfully, and perhaps rightly, survived Hill’s accusations, something in the country had changed about women and work and the range of things men could do to them there.

    But then Bubba came along and blew up the tracks.
    More at link.
     
  2. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Now that there are no more elections to win or lose with a Clinton at the top is a great time for Democrats to be honest about him lol.
     
  3. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    George HW Bush appears to need a reckoning as well.
     
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  4. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Ah there is so much to be said about this topic.

    Who out there has not done something that someone out there has not looked down upon them. We all have our vices.

    This is by no means a justification for any ones actions.

    Our society has birthed the sexualization of women over the last few decades and now society wants to cry foul. I appreciate a beautiful woman as much as the next typical straight guy, but I have come to find the epitome of a beautiful woman being defined by her tits and ass highly annoying.
     
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  5. B-Bob

    B-Bob Contributing Member

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    Well, we're trying to squeeze it in while he's still alive. :D
     
  6. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    My favorite theme from Hillary-huggers during 2016: "Don't vote for the rapist (Trump), vote for the wife of the rapist (Clinton)."

    Great logic there.
     
  7. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Given the options, that is good logic.
     
  8. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    I was taught that those who are accomplices to a crime are equally as guilty as those who commit the crime. Which is why get-a-way drivers can be charged with murder that takes place during an armed robbery.
     
  9. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    And here was the moment people stopped giving a crap about the #MeToo hashtag:

     
  10. Buck Turgidson

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    Every President does. That's how history works.
     
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  11. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    I'll take the penis mightier for 400
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Buck Turgidson

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    eta: I miss my flip phone.
     
    #12 Buck Turgidson, Nov 14, 2017 at 12:46 PM
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 1:10 PM
  13. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    LOL

    If only we could go back to the days where you would trade your 14 year old daughter to a 50 year old man for 2 sheep and a bushel of corn so he plug her daily until she died giving him children.

    We've sexualized women over the last few decades? Ever read Song of Solomon? I forget, why did David have Bathsheba's husband killed? Was it to be in her friendzone?

    Women are more in control of their own sexuality and have more power to defend themselves against sexual abuse today than in any time in history.
     
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  14. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    o_O

    I don't get it. That is a logically sound argument. It's weird that you would prefer a rapist to a rapist's wife.
     
  15. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I don't really agree. So far the accusations against him are but grabbing as an 80+ year old man. Even the newest one is advanced age.

    I'm pretty confident that George Bush has been suffering from dementia now for awhile. It's not that I don't feel bad for the girls who felt violated, but these accusations are definitely "different" to me. I think it is more about the sad state of an old man losing his impulse control and exhibiting signs of mental deterioration.
     
  16. Buck Turgidson

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    Man, aim higher than that. Just how "homely" is she?
     
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  17. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Was Clinton as 'rapist' or just a horndawg . . . .
    Monica was not some 14 year old doing things against her will
    Sexual harrasser . . but never heard RAPE and CLINTON together

    Rocket River
     
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  18. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Clinton was the Renaissance criminal murderer, perjurist(how tame THAT charge is today), embezzler and rapist.

    You name it, he's gotten away with it. ..

    Seriously though, he seems like as bad a chronic liar as he is a sexual harasser. The type that pushes and pushes to see if he can get away with it. Judging by the looks of his accusers, it wasn't purely a power thing and more of a game. The fun was not getting called out by the other for crossing that line.

    Those were the womanizers back then. Now we've replaced socializing skills with dickpix and eggplant emojis
     
  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    "Wife" isn't the same as getaway driver.
     
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  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    The accusations against GHW Bush go back much further than just since he's been in his 80's apparently this was something he's been doing for decades. This from today.
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/13/politics/george-hw-bush-groping-allegation/index.html

    Regard GHW Bush I'll also admit he's a president that I didn't like when he was in office, but looking back think he was one of our better ones. He governed pragmatically and the 1990 budget was a remarkable achievement of fiscal discipline and political courage. It's been sad to see him brought down low both due to age and also to what we are finding out about his past now.
     
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