Oh, now I see the damn thing. :grin: Short answer, no, I don't, not on the field. Off the field, there's more media chatter, more media scrutiny, more fan scrutiny, and they are a role model whether they are comfortable with being one or not. But on the field, no, I don't think so. I would think Oilers' fans would know this better than most.
It absolutely does, and the empirical evidence supports this to be true. Hopefully people can discuss this in a mature manner (i.e not screaming racist when race is discussed in an objective, intellectual manner). 1. Differences in intelligence exist and are measurable across classes, races, countries, etc. 2. Intelligence is largely inherited, but also a factor of one's environment and upbringing. Intelligence is a key contributor to leadership skills. 3. The quarterback position relies less on physical attributes than other NFL positions and more on mental attributes and leadership abilities. The reverse is true for positions such as running back and cornerback -- positions where it's rare to find anything but blacks. 4. Certain races (whites, Asians) display higher levels of intelligence than other races, which stands to reason as they are more likely to have stable upbringings with two parents and surrounded by positive educational influences and better schools. 5. Because the QB position relies less on athleticism, the talent pool for the position is broader and should naturally trend towards the US' demographics which are ~70% white.
I don't know if this thread ever had a chance, but it definitely doesn't anymore. But back to the OP: I pretty much echo Raven's opinions.
Mike Vick, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Dan Marino, Warren Moon, Terry Bradshaw, Andy Dalton, Randall Cunningham, Ben Rothlesberger. Just some random QBs from the past and present to juggle around. Intelligence and ignorance comes in all shapes and colors.
Doug Williams, Moon, Cunningham, McNabb, McNair, Young, Jamarcus, Smith, Vick, Slash, Quincy, Freeman, Geno, Tony Banks, Russell, Kapernick, RG3, E.J., T Jackson, and D-Pep... These are most of the black quarterbacks that where giving the opportunity to start and lead a team in the history of the NFL. Very small sample size to make a true judgment but just check the combined win lost record and see how it turns out... And then rethink your statement. Back in the day people thought black people wasn't intelligent enough to play baseball and basketball either _ go figure.
This could single handedly be the worst "Non D/D" post I've ever read. So according to this, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Dr.Jerry Buss, and Timmy Chang, should've been better QB's than Donovan McNabb, RG3, Russell Wilson, Steve McNair, and Randall Cunningham because of their wealth of intelligence and Asian-ness??? Don't get me wrong, I understand what you're TRYING to say, but I think it's completely baseless and couldn't be further from the truth. You say that intelligence is inherited, then you back up that statement by saying that "whites and Asians" are more intelligent because of their 2 parent up-bringing. I think ultimately race plays ZERO part in being QB ON THE FIELD. Because there are tons of intelligent, "2 parent homed", African Americans, and tons of less than intelligent, "single parent homed", Caucasians. There's valid info from both sides, enough to where I feel confident in saying that this should be a null and void topic of argument.
Win-loss combined in starts for all players listed: 689-586-3 (.539). Not what I would call a tremendous success. 8 of the 18 players listed have a winning record. Also, only one super bowl in the group listed. I don't think that race plays much of a role in QB success, but if you are looking to argue that it doesn't, you have to do more than just throw out some names.
Black players do on the whole have an athletic advantage on other races, which is why they maintain such disproportionate numbers in the NBA and NFL. As Tom Brady and Peyton Manning can attest to, you don't have to be the slightest bit athletic to be a great NFL QB. With the playing field leveled, whites outnumber blacks in the US by almost 5 to 1, so it would reason there would be many more whites QB's. Secondly, black QB's aren't developed as well as white QB's. Many black QB's are given freedom to run freely, and have great success in high school, and college, but this simply doesn't work in the NFL. You have to be pass first, period. White QB's do it also, but it is much more prevalent in black QB's. As for the IQ, while it is true whites are smarter on the whole, it is by no means a gigantic margin, and even if it was, white QB's with average intelligence have had success. So no, when it comes to Bridgewater, who is obviously the impotence for this poll. He has always been a pocket passer, with mobility, and given that a black QB is just as apt to succeed or fail in the NFL as a white QB.
Also _ alot of white kids grow up playing the QB position because that's the only position they can play depending on level of talent in their area. A lot of young black kids are moved all over the field because of their athletic ability and not giving the opportunity to stick at one position their entire lives like many white kids who are giving the opportunity to play QB. RG3 wanted to go to Texas but they wanted to make him a DB... Coaches wanted to make Moon a DB as well when he was young. Also their have been more white QBs who have failed than succeeded compared to the ratio of black quarterbacks in the NFL... What race are you...??? Caucasian or Asian...? Because if those are the most intelligent races_ you must not be either one...
I forgot to put Cam in that group as well... Now go do all the leg work and find out the combined win lost records of white QBs and see what you come up with... And like I said _ two small of a sample size to judge by super bowls. Not many of those black QBs had great offensive minded coaches and or head coaches working with them. Cunningham looked alot different in Minnesota than he did in Philly and McNabb had a great offensive minded head coach and Vick looked alot better in his short stint under Andy.
Based on the fact that each week starting QBs win-loss record is 16-16 (.500) I think that batting .539 is a tremendous success. Now add in Cap, Wilson and Cam also. The brothers just gained another couple of basis points. Man, white QBs aren't even playing .500 ball :grin:
Also around 14 of those players I've mentioned got their teams to the playoffs and are won playoff games with 4 of them making it to the super bowl _ Doug, McNabb, Steve, and Kapernick (and Cam or Russell may make it to the SB this year). And a a few of those guys that didn't make it to the super bowl made it at least to the NFC and AFC championships. That's a great ratio...
I had composed an additional sentence which dealt with the inheritance of intelligence point, but deleted it before posting, as I knew readers such as yourself would not like to read the sentence (not mature enough to accept it). So don't think I overlooked that argument. It deals with natural (and unnatural) selection and anthropology, for your information. But the empirical data (easily clearing the statistically significant threshold) -- the stark contrast between racial composition between various positions on the NFL field -- does in fact prove that race factors into QB success. The fact that you can count on one hand the number of highly successful black NFL quarterbacks in the history of the league -- AND you can count on one hand the number of white cornerbacks/running backs in the NFL does prove (with hard data) that race factors into positional success. As a polite reminder, this was the point of the thread, before the name calling started.
Teddy Bridgewater can, and will succeed. And he'll do it while wearing a Texans uniform. Edit: I accidentally clicked yes in the poll. So subtract one from yes and add it to no.
