prime kobe v.s. prime LeBron

We all would have won if the argument didn't have to happen in the first place.

 

You know, I was going to say you made some good points, but then you post this ridiculously asinine statement and you ruined your cred.

 

1. Both have cases for being better than the other.

2. Who really gives a ****? They're both HOFs, they're both champions.

3. I wondered why this discussion could have possibly lasted 13 pages. Now I know.

4. BTG owned this guy- however, you have to factor in team success at least a little bit. It's why T-Mac is not higher ranked than he is.

5. The way I see it, LeBron wins the popular vote, and Kobe wins the electoral college.

 

To me I think T-Mac falls down the list due to only being at the top of his game for a very short time all things considered. Also he was never healthy, he played 75 or more games in a season only 5 times in his career.....only 1 more than Yao.

If we are looking at McGrady vs Kobe and only looking at McGrady at his best vs Kobe at his best, I'm taking McGrady every day of the week.....but McGrady at his best was what? Maybe 5 or 6 seasons before he fell off a cliff?

It's kind of similar to what happened to Grant Hill in some ways. When he was new to the league he was completely destroying everyone and was looking like a sure thing HOFer one day.....then his play fell off and it never recovered.

That said, I do think that the "ringz" argument does hold weight with some, I'm just arguing that it shouldn't. The people who put stock in that type of argument are the same types of people who voted that Derek Jeter (one of the worst defensive short stops to ever play the game) win multiple golden glove awards or the types of people who get wrapped up in media narratives and end up supporting Russell Westbrick for MVP. All of those are illogical, but that's what happens when you count on the "wisdom" of the masses.

 

Maybe there is a confusion due to what your definition of all time great is .
Is he a hall of famer yea ill give you that , but just that

 

Shaq was a terrible ft shooter. Do i need metrics for that?

 

If you want to focus on Kobe's 2nd run and disregard the 3 peat with Shaq then thats 2 rings vs Lebron's 3. So Lebron has better stats, more MVPs, more clutch based on actual numbers, better talent, more MVPs and he also went to the Finals by himself with no other superstar on the team whereas Kobe didn't even get to the 2nd round in 3 tries when he had no other superstar. So what is your argument again? And Lebron beat a much better team thab Kobe, GSW was the best regular season team in history they are better than 2nd Celtics Big 3.

You can't say Kobe has more rings and then not include Shaq. Shaq is better than all of Lebron's supporting cast combined so when you talk about who had more help it is Kobe.

 

Shaq>>>>>>Bosh, Wade, Irving, Love, Ray Allen.

Also GSW>Celtics. Gsw had more regular season wins than any other team and they also had 4 stars to Celtics 3. How are the Celtics better competition?

You straight up crazy dawg.

 

Yea this argument is dumb. You went left when you took the "Pau was the best player on the Lakers" position. So Kobe rode Pau's coattails now? Lol. Yep, you're not qualified to speak on this topic anymore

Did you really just say Shaq's single handedly better than 5 superstars? Lol. This from the same person who put the likes of Andrew Bynum & Lamar Odom as some incredible force the NBA has never witnessed before (only one allstar game between the 2). Between you & Bobby i dont know whos more delusional. At no point would anybody take a supporting cast of Bynum/Odom/Pau over Wade/Bosh/Allen. Wade, Bosh & Allen were ALL franchise players before playing w/ Lebron. They were all perinnial allstars who had impressive accolades & career statistics. What did Bynum do? What accolades did Odom have? Pau was solid but seen as soft in nba circles. Oh i forgot, Pau was the spanish MVP smh

Lebron's had WAY more "help" overrall in a weaker conference vs weaker competition.

 

None of your arguments make any sense and fail when measured to reality. If Lebron is worse than Kobe how come he want to the Finals with a lottery team while Kobe couldn't get into the 2nd round in 3 tries? Both of them had a team with no other superstars, Lebron showed up Kobe quit on his team.

If Lebron had a much easier time and better team how he had 4 MVPs to Kobe's 1? How come Lebron has more pts scored, more rebs, blocks and assits and also more career playoff and regular season minutes played? So Lebron has better career statistics, he has more MVPs, he is obviously more talented than Kobe, he is obviously more clutch than Kobe and all the lists of greatest NBA players have Lebron over Kobe:
1) ESPN (Lebron #3, Kobe 11-15)
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankalltime/greatest-players-ever
2) Fox Sports(Lebron#2, Kobe#12)
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/ranking-the-25-greatest-players-in-nba-history-100716
3) Bleacher Report (Lebron #6, Kobe N/A LMAO)
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1795233-10-greatest-nba-players-of-all-time
4) CBS Sports (Lebron#2, Kobe#10)
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...ayers-of-all-time-where-do-lebron-curry-rank/
5) Britannica (Lebron#1, Kobe N/A again so much for that)
https://www.britannica.com/list/editor-picks-the-10-greatest-basketball-players-of-all-time
6)SI (Lebron#5, Kobe#12)
http://sportsillustrated.com.ph/US/...ordan-lebron-james-stephen-curry-nba-greatest
7)The Top Tens (Lebron#4, Kobe#5)
https://www.thetoptens.com/basketball-players/
8)THe Cheat Sheet (Lebron#7, Kobe#8)
https://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/lebron-james-top-nba-players-ever-rank.html/?a=viewall
9) Forbes (Lebron#4, Kobe none again let's wrap this **** up)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacglo...greatest-nba-player-of-all-time/#7a0536bd3b8c

This isn't even a debate, all of these sites think Lebron is better than Kobe, and they made 1000+ arguments for Lebron over Kobe all you need to do is check the links and rebutt every single one of these to prove me wrong. I know you love Kobe, but c'mon. face reality. You think you are a better analyst than all the sports journalists as well as majority of basketball fans in the world? You keep saying I'm delusional but the reality is you are the one who has no idea what you are talking about. LMAO@all these sites saying Lebron is better than Kobe yet you keep insisting Kobe did more with less.

 

Yes, but his positives outweighed the negative of his FT shooting. So he was not a liability on the court. The team was better with hi than without him. Not that complex.

Thanks for proving you have no support for your claims though.

I keep thinking you can't say anything more ridiculous, but you keep coming through. Bosh, Irving, Love and the Allen Heat version are not superstar players. And yes, a team would trade all of those guys for a prime Shaq.

 

LOL yeah, basketball stats and metrics are what is "dumb" here.....your Kobe fanboi shtick is what is "smart".

Again, if you disagree with me, back it up with something other than just you saying it's wrong (sorry but you've gotta earn credibility). Show me evidence that I'm wrong to overshadow the metrics that I've already shown you that suggests I'm right. Good luck.

Honestly your argument isn't even with me, it's essentially with math. You don't like what math says about your boy Kobe and you are lashing out as a result.

 

if lebron made mo williams an allstar what more if he played with lamar odom

 

Lamar Odom might have never started smoking crack if he didn't have to play alongside Kobe.


LOL jk.

 

He wasn't a overrall liability. Point me where I ever said Shaq was a complete liability. What I DID say is as dominant as Shaq was, he was not that much of a factor down the stretch of games. Unlike Shaq, you can trust the ball w/ a Wade, Kyrie, Bosh or Ray Allen in clutch situations they'll make the right play. Teams would just foul Shaq and he would most likely brick both ft's. That's why Kobe was so valuable...

C'mon, you're smarter than this. First off, Kyrie Irving averaged 25pts this season & had the ball in his hands more than Lebron clutch situations. He hit THE shot in game 7 that beat GS in the finals & is the primary go-to guy for Cleveland. Kyrie is a superstar. As far as Miami, Wade & Bosh's stats aren't superstar like clearly because they sacrificed their games playing with the big 3. The same way Harden would if Carmelo, Lebron joined Houston. Individually they were ALL capable of taking over & finishing games (Hence all the big shots Bosh, Wade, Allen & Kyrie hit). How many clutch shots did Shaq hit?

You're telling me teams would automatically trade prime Bosh,Wade, Kyrie to get Shaq lol. Yet the Lakers actually traded Shaq for just Caron Butler and Lamar Odom. So you essentially value Shaq higher than the Lakers did. He was a great player but was a liability down the stretch.

 

Exactly, which is why calling him a Q4 liability is silly. He wasn't a liability as long as his positives outweighed his negatives, and that was the case every minute he was on the court.

No, what you said was Shaq was a Q4 liability. As far as saying he wasn't much of a factor down the stretch of games:

1) Define down the stretch (last minute, last two, last five?)

2) Support your claim with facts

As far as the rest of your post, Kyrie is a great scorer that had the benefit of tons of 1-1 looks due to LeBron's presence (hmmmm, similar to this guard that won 3 titles along this big C that constantly got him 1-1 looks all night). The big shot you speak of, one on one coverage. Things would be completely different for Kyrie if he had to do more than get buckets, mainly on solo coverage.

And yes, teams would happily trade all of those players for a prime Shaq (he was post prime when traded) or any other player that's clearly a top 10 player in league history. What's funny is when Shaq was in his prime Jackson wanted to trade Kobe!

Let us know when you have some actual support for how laker players fared down the stretch during the 3-peat. We will be waiting.

 

Prime Kobe: medium rare.

Don't know what kind of meat is LeBron? I'm guessing well done charred-brown?

 

Lets face reality here, no team had an answer for prime Shaq. The only factor that kept Shaq from winning in the East was MJ and the Bulls.
Prime Shaq>Prime Wade & Bosh

 

Well......I mean, that and you know, when he ran into a better center in the finals....one of the only better centers in NBA history.

 

I'm actually a tmac fan and don't get the hate he receives from some although he is extreamly overrated.

His best was not better than kobes best imo.

Tmac was super inefficient.

I think we can all agree that his best season was the 02/03 season when he avg 32/6/5.

He actually shot very well that season with with 45/38/79 splits.

And the 2 seasons before that he shot around 45/35/75 which is not bad for a guy putting up 25+ ppg and avg 7 rebounds and 5 assists.

But that was it for tmac he had a few more seasons of avg 24 ppg but he shot barley over 41% from the field and 31-33% from 3pt range.

His peak was literally his first 3 seasons in Orlando.

Kobe was a killer and frankly was shooting over 46-47% from the field while avg 28 ppg by year 4 at age 22 and winning championships.

And as kobe got older his shooting got better unlike Tmac.

Kobe was a killer and winner something that tmac for all his talent was not.

I just can't get behind his peak being better than kobes peak.