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Portland trades Bazemore and Tolliver to Kings for Ariza and more

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by DaBeard, Jan 18, 2020.

  1. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    Nice trade for Portland given the cap situation and Ariza potentially having an impact.
     
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  2. Fantasma Negro

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    Takes defensive pressure off him giving him more freedom to just put up shots
     
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  3. andersongo

    andersongo Member

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    Ariza is already a champion. No ring-chasing discount for him. Go get your money!!
     
    hakeem94 likes this.
  4. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    TODAY IS A GREAT DAY!
     
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  5. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    Teams are doing some things!


    Do something, Morey!
     
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  6. macan

    macan Member

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    so Portland trying to get as many Rockets legends as possible. good for them.
     
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  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    The opposite of getting nothing for Ariza, whose contract expired in 2018, would have meant trading him in 2018 while he was a starter on the best team in the league and the Rockets greatest ever team. . . How does this move make any logical sense then or now?

    The alternative, presuming the Rockets could have offered enough under the cap, would have been matching a laughably above market contract for Ariza from PHX , which had to bail on him 2 months later (which, btw is how we ended up with Austin Rivers who is equally effective at this stage for a fraction of the price)

    Anyway sure.hes an asset which is why he's played on 5 teams in 18 months...
     
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  8. Elephant810

    Elephant810 Member

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    Can’t blame him. Who gives a crap about winning when your career is almost over anyway. He already has a ring. Get dat money...
     
  9. Blurr#7

    Blurr#7 Contributing Member

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    I still don’t get how Lillard gets so much love. He’s done nothing in the playoffs.
     
  10. joshuaao

    joshuaao Member

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    I originally thought that $15 MM for Ariza was a massive overpay, but it was only for one year, so it's not like the deal would've been an anchor to us. You had a team on the brink of a championship - still don't understand why you don't try to RUN IT BACK for at least one more season.

    In the end, Ariza netted the Suns two great rotation pieces - Rivers AND Oubre. While we were able to get Rivers on the cheap, Oubre would have been a difference maker on this team for years to come. Hard to project that the Wizards would be just as dumb as the Suns.
     
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  11. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    What pick up for Portland in ariza
     
  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    This is not what really happened though

    First, Ariza didn't even meet with the Rockets, because he knew a ridiculous 15mm offer was not forthcoming for him...he went on to prove this by being.. pretty lousy, and having a horrid shooting season.

    Second, Oubre was moved because the Wizards weren't going to resign him and Ariza was an expiring.

    Third, though not that relevant, it's not hard to predict the Wizards would do tanking things. They are poorly run, they valued Ariza cap space more than Oubre on their lottery team, which is not entirely irrational given their perennial rebuilding state, and the fact they were on the hook for Wall max (and eventually Beal).

    This hypothetical that the Rockets should have overpaid for Ariza in June to land Austin Rivers and Oubre in December requires some 12 dimensional chess bullshit that is chancy at best, even in hindsight, particularly when they landed Rivers in December...for free, and now have him on a below market deal.

    Was it rational at the time to spend 15mm on Trevor Ariza last year? Or 25 mm over 2 fir this year? That's really the only metric you can use, regardless of how teams extricated themselves from these deals.

    No it was not, which, again, is why he is on his 4th team in a year. Nobody is getting anything useful for him other than a Kelly Oubre rental. Oubre was an unrestricted free agent last year, btw, so if he was really a necessary piece, Ariza was not a prerequisite to that. And this year, he's apparently traded in part to get rid of Bazemore even higher deal...so. ...

    I'm the first to call out cheapo Tillman moves. But overpaying for Ariza, going deep deep into the Tax, in the hope that his expiring can maybe at some point be turned into a positive? That's just not smart. In general, you don't create trade assets by overpaying old washed players. Ask Nene.

    Also it's kind of weird to argue the Rockets should go all in and re-sign a mediocre Ariza to run it back...so they can trade him 1 month later. That's not a likely scenario, if they'd committed stupid money to Ariza they would not be as inclined to dump him like a lotto bound Suns-Kings-Wizards team, out of simple pride.
     
    #52 SamFisher, Jan 23, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  13. lionaire

    lionaire Member

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    Ariza still got some in the tank
     
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  14. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    Bazemore was the most OVERRATED player on Clutchfans. Never understood why people thought he was any good?
     
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  15. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Of course, he tried to play hard and fit in with the Suns early last year. However the other players were never in the right spots offensively or defensively. They would not pick up on what the proper play was and Ariza ended up shutting it down. Now he can try to make the playoffs and still count his money.
     
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  16. joshuaao

    joshuaao Member

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    Sounds like Ariza was willing to re-sign with us, but was told that we wouldn't be able to afford him.

    Even with a decline in play, Ariza had value because he was a large expiring deal. We know that at least two teams were willing to pay him at that $15 MM price tag.

    Ariza was a critical piece to our 65-win team. I would've overpaid him to keep continuity and actually run it back. A one year overpay (that doesn't hamstring you long-term) to keep that team together is a reasonable path forward.

    If we still started off poorly, I assume Morey would've scoured the market and been able to get a similar deal.

    Oubre is a young stud and would've been a valuable addition, even as a rental. As an over the cap team, we needed bird rights to offer Oubre a competitive deal (he signed for 2 years, $30 MM this offseason). So yes, a trade was a necessary prerequisite.

    To be clear, I wasn't posting to blast cheapo Tillman. I'm just pointing out that there were two imperfect paths forward - overpay Ariza or let him go. In my opinion we chose the wrong one.

    If we had re-signed Ariza, there were two potential outcomes - 1) he continues to be a difference-maker and we don't have such a poor start to the season, or 2) his game regresses like it did in SAC and we still start off poorly

    Under scenario 1, we keep Ariza, likely finish higher than 4th, and have another quality wing to make a deep playoff run. Under scenario 2, Morey would look to improve the team and would be equipped with a large expiring asset to facilitate a trade.

    At the end of the day, the NBA is a business and I understand that you can't spend unlimited amounts on a team. But looking at how last year turned out, it would've been nice to have invested a little extra money to get our team over the hump.
     
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  17. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Ariza never got a chance to play with Melo here.....well fate.

    Lord Threeza and the Melon Head.
     
    #57 daywalker02, Jan 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  18. MrButtocks

    MrButtocks Contributing Member

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    Ariza will help Portland, he isn't washed yet. He balled out for Washington again last season. On Portland he would be asked to play a role he's very comfortable with.
     
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  19. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    Nailed it.

    It was a rock and a hard place situation (thanks to the Suns for being stupid).

    However, I had to remind a lot of Ariza bashers (and there were a ton even before 'game 7') how much we would miss him. He is captain traffic director out there on defense. A switching hero.

    But he doesn't make sense for rebuilding teams, just like Andre Iguoadala doesn't and PJ Tucker wouldn't.
     

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