Peter Gammons: Bagwell deserves to be voted into the HOF, now, not later.

From the article...

Not to live in the obtuse, but look at his historic place:
• OPS? .948, 21st, right above Mays, Aaron and Robinson.
• Adjusted Batting Wins? 58.38, right above Mike Schmidt and Willie McCovey.
• Adjusted OPS? Again, follow the list of HOF members below his name, which happens to be 21st all-time.

When faced with crises of self-doubt, I usually turn to Rob Tracy at Elias Sports Bureau, who began his Bagwell support by writing, "What he was able to accomplish (along with Craig Biggio) in Houston -- especially in the Astrodome years -- is nothing short of amazing."

Tracy turns to the conventional statistical line: His .297/.540/.408 should be an automatic pass key, as every eligible player with .290/.500/.400 is already in the Hall. Bagwell scored 1,517 runs and knocked in 1,529. Every eligible player with 1,500 runs and 1,500 RBIs is already in Cooperstown. The other 15 players who hit the 1,500/1,500 level for one team are all in the Hall.

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Just look at the numbers. He HAS to be in. Also, here is another random Bagwell stat (but very good stat).

Jeff Bagwell scored 152 runs in 2000 This is tied for 10th all-time (since 1900). This is very impressive for many other reasons.

-Only 19 times in the majors since 1900 has a player ever scored at least 150 runs.
-Only 7 of those times was the player in the National League.
-The last time a player scored at least 150 runs before Bagwell was Ted Williams (150) in 1949...that was 51 years between the two.
-Out of the 19 times, 9 were achieved by Yankees between 1920 and 1937 (6 by Babe Ruth).
-3 times were by a member of the 1929 or 1930 Cubs
-2 times were by a member of the 1930 or 1932 Phil. Athletics
-3 times were by a member of the 1929, 1930, or 1932 Phil. Phillies
- That is 17 of the 19 years by only 4 teams over a relatively short period of time. Then there is Williams in '49 and our very own Jeff Bagwell in 2000.

Here is the list:

1 Ruth, 1921, 177r
2 Gehrig, 1936, 167r
3 Ruth, 1928, 163r
4 Gehrig, 1931, 163r
5 Ruth, 1920, 158r
6 Ruth, 1927, 158r
7 Chuck Klein, 1930, 158r
8 Rogers Hornsby, 1929, 156r
9 Kiki Cuyler, 1930, 155r
10 JEFF BAGWELL, 2000, 152r
11 Woody English, 1930, 152r
12 Chuck Klein, 1932, 152r
13 Al Simmons, 1930, 152r
14 Lefty O'doul, 1929, 152r
15 Jimmie Foxx, 1932, 151r
16 Joe DiMaggio, 1937, 151r
17 Ruth, 1923, 151r
18 Williams, 1949, 150r
19 Ruth, 1930, 150r

 

I think, by reading some of the more recent articles over Baggy, a lot of voters are skeptical over PEDs. Besides some grumblings, nothing has ever been proved against the guy but because of the era and his body over those years, some voters just aren't sure.

 

If Bagwell doesn't get into the Hall of Fame it is going to be a great injustice.

 

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2...-bagwell-of-roiding-why-not-suspect-everyone/

 

Don't think he gets in on the first ballot.

 

The Astros had a steroid laden team back in the late 90's/early 2000's: Caminiti, Hidalgo, Luis Gonzalez, Bagwell, and maybe even Biggio. The only one who was clean was Berkman.

 

I've heard this argument quite a bit before, and to me, it could serve as evidence that Bagwell did not use steroids. Why? Because the likes of Caminiti, Steve Finley, and Luiz Gonzalez blew up and had huge increases in their power numbers after they went to different teams. Therefore, although I have absolutely no proof or evidence, how come most people don't say that maybe it was Bagwell that was either preventing or discouraging them from using steroids. And then the moment they went to a different clubhouse that wasn't led by Bagwell, they were free (or felt less guilty) using steroids. Again, I have no inside information or proof, but I find it pretty interesting that most people have the same interpretation of the poster above, but don't look at it from the other side. Just my two cents, I'm not sure if anybody else has similar thoughts or conclusions.

 

Best. Astro. EVER.

 

Repped.

And, go ahead on with your surmise and conjecture. It's all the idiots declaring as if it were fact that he did use have. Yours is just as valid.

 

Repped, I honestly never thought of this argument before, but it makes a lot of sense.

 

In that case, maybe Bagwell should have given Adam Everett and Brad Ausmus some of his roids.

 

Greg Maddux played with Rafael Palmeiro, Sammy Sosa, David Justice, Ken Caminiti, Mike Stanton, Kent Mercker, and Denny Neagle. He must have been a user too.

 

Why do we have to go through this with every Bagwell discussion? The simple fact is none of us know whether he did or didn't. Lets not use blanket statements.

Do I think Bags juiced? Yes

Do I think there is a chance he didn't? Yes

While Bonds, Ortiz, Ramirez, Canseco, Caminiti, Clemens, Pettitte, Palmeiro, Rodriguez & many others have damning evidence against them, Bagwell only has speculation. That has to be worth something.

 

To quote Gammons again. "Bagwell never failed any tests." Everything else is speculation unworthy of Stros' fans.

 

Roger Clemens is it for me. He won a cy young and almost guided the team to 2 World series in his short time here. I'm not kidding either.

 

I would say Biggio and it's not even close imo

 

A few years ago, Richard Justice (at least I think it was RJ) had an article/blog posting discussing the greatest Astros pitcher of all time. Not one mention of Clemens.

I posted a comment stating that it was an out and out NO-BRAINER that Roger Clemens was not only (easily) the greatest Astros pitcher ever but also one of the top 5-10 best pitchers in the history of the game. Period.

Naturally, I was vilified. Lot of Mindy Mccready fans on that day, I guess.

 

I would agree with you.

 

You are crazy.