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Pacers shopping Croshere for mid first round pick

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by The Cat, Jun 25, 2001.

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  1. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    And we're one of the teams targeted. Even though I like Austin, I hope we don't do this unless they'll take Cato off our hands with the pick.

    From ESPN Insider:

    Count the Pacers among the teams desperately trying to move into the first round by Wednesday. Along with the Knicks, the Pacers are looking to land somewhere in the mid-first round and are targeting Houston, Boston, Orlando and Cleveland, all of whom have multiple picks.

    According to the Indianapolis Star, the Pacers are trying to package Austin Croshere in a deal that would bring them a mid first round pick. Pacers GM Donnie Walsh said that Indiana will be active in pursuing a draft pick or free-agents to help the team along. "We don't feel like we need a major overhaul," Walsh said. "But we've got good young players who need help."

    Would Chris Webber help? Of course. But Walsh denied that the Pacers have been talking to the Kings about a Webber swap. Teams can't start discussing free-agents until July 1. However, Walsh said he wouldn't pursue Webber at the expense of trading Jermaine O'Neal. "If they want O'Neal," Walsh said, "that would be a deal breaker."

    Boston and Houston had a strong interest in Croshere last summer and would likely be the teams most willing to do a deal. Each has three first round draft picks.

    Other bits and pieces from Insider today:

    1.) Woods looks to have slipped out of the lottery, due to concerns about his back and mental toughness. Unless Joe Johnson falls to 13, I think we take this guy.

    2.) Joe Johnson was promised by someone that he would be top 9. The Cavs are debating between Johnson and Radman according to sources, although neither one was named in the article in the Cleveland paper this morning about the Cavs draft.

    3.) Steven Hunter had great workouts in both Boston and Seattle this weekend, and now there's a good chance Seattle will take him at 12.

    4.) Kwame Brown seems to be getting the nod as the consensus #1 right now, with his main competition as Tyson Chandler????

    5.) The Celtics deny any promises of picking Kedrick Brown with their 10th or 11th picks.

    6.) Terence Morris has put together several strong workouts, and Houston (23), Philadelphia (26), and San Antonio (28) are all giving him a long look. Insider says that scouts are saying he could be a key 3rd man on a successful team.

    That's really about it that I can find right now... some interesting stuff nonetheless. Will be a long wait until draft day.

    ------------------
    The Mo Taylor Fan Site

    "Basketball players win basketball games. Athletes win track meets."-- Shane Battier

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    Cat's Mock Draft
     
    #1 The Cat, Jun 25, 2001
  2. Rocketsauce

    Rocketsauce Contributing Member

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    Hey, what's Austin's salary? I think he would be a great pick-up and could really offset Mo's poor rebounding. Oh, and I guess Crisco would win the bet. Works for me.

    I wonder if 18 is classified "In the middle?" 18 and Cato is fine with me. Pick up T-Mo at 23 and Woods or Hunter with the 13. I think that would definitely be a huge improvement. I would prefer building our team this way rather than trying to sign big-time FA's.

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    #2 Rocketsauce, Jun 25, 2001
  3. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Contributing Member

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    Great info Cat!

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    #3 ROXRAN, Jun 25, 2001
  4. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    Austin's salary is 5.4 million I believe, roughly the same as Cato's this year. However, because of BYC rules, we'd have to make it a larger trade than just Cato for Croshere, if I understand correctly.

    From the way the article sounded, I think 18 would be considered a mid-first round pick. They said that teams targeted (besides us) included Boston and Cleveland. I can't see Boston or Cleveland giving up their lottery picks, so obviously they would have to be talking about Boston's 21st pick and Cleveland's 20th. We could outbid them both. Of course, we couldn't outbid Orlando for the 15, but seeing Orlando's need for big men and the prospects in this draft, I can't imagine them giving up that pick for Croshere.

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    The Mo Taylor Fan Site

    "Basketball players win basketball games. Athletes win track meets."-- Shane Battier

    Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more!

    Cat's Mock Draft
     
    #4 The Cat, Jun 25, 2001
  5. GATER

    GATER Contributing Member

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    Cat - I think you're right about the BYC implications.

    Croshere has 3 more years at $19.7m BUT has a player option for 3 more years at $7.9m, $8.6m & $9.3m. In other words, he ain't cheap. Especially compared to a #18's salary!

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    Raef to Rocks in '01-'02!

    [This message has been edited by GATER (edited June 25, 2001).]
     
    #5 GATER, Jun 25, 2001
  6. Achebe

    Achebe Contributing Member

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    I want to win the bet, but not w/ Austin Croshere. Kelvin Cato is more important at #5 than Croshere at #3, and Cato has to be the player that the Pacers would target in a s&t (if the Insider isn't full of ****).

    BTW,

    Be careful The Cat on what you wish for. Not every player that falls b/c of an ailment is a steal. There are legitimate concerns/reasons why players fall.
     
    #6 Achebe, Jun 25, 2001
  7. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    Achebe,

    I'm not basing my thoughts on taking this guy due to him slipping. He's someone I've watched in college for four years, and more closely the last two. Some of the concerns people have about Loren are not justified, imho. He is exactly who I would want on the Rockets.

    Offensively, he's as good as any post man in the draft. He has the post moves inside, and the jumper out to 18 feet. Great footwork, nice agility, versatility-- the total package. Defensively, his rebounding can be questionable at times, but he's a good one on one defender, and I can only imagine how much he can improve if he's bulked up 25 pounds. He's a great shotblocker from the strong and weak sides of the floor also.

    I see this happen every year in sports, whether it be the draft, free agency, or whatever. Teams get the Penny Hardaway syndrome, and are afraid that one prior injury will show up again and ruin his career. Sure, it will happen now and again, but too often teams end up passing on true gems.

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    The Mo Taylor Fan Site

    "Basketball players win basketball games. Athletes win track meets."-- Shane Battier

    Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more!

    Cat's Mock Draft
     
    #7 The Cat, Jun 25, 2001
  8. haven

    haven Member

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    The Cat:

    Why was he so unproductive in college, then? Admittedly, I didn't watch much Arizona basketball this year, but haven't his stats been declining for the last two years? He has a reputation for being soft. Is that the problem? Just looking for an assessment that jibes with his record...

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    Newbiehad... coming to a bbs near you, October 31st.
     
    #8 haven, Jun 25, 2001
  9. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Contributing Member

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    i would be thrilled if woods was our man-we need a center, i watched him in the tourney final vs duke and let me tell u he was a man among boys-he had a good jump hook and mobility and a sweet stroke from outside-he also shoots free throws at a high clip for a big man

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    How Sweet It Is! How Sweet It Is!
    Gene Peterson on the rockets winning the 1995 championship over the Orlando Magic
     
    #9 DVauthrin, Jun 25, 2001
  10. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member
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    MManal,
    Austin's salary and play of late scares me.If we get the guy who was a maniac on the boards and was busting threes in the finals...great,but that salary..ouch
    Getting rid of Cato's salary is huge,but couldn't we find something better with that caproom?...and what about defense out of the three spot?
    On Woods...I think he's going much higher than 13.It's a tough call on him at a high pick,but I think he'll make someone happy.If he's still there at 13 then I agree we should snatch him up ASAP.

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    [This message has been edited by hardwood (edited June 25, 2001).]
     
    #10 Plowman, Jun 25, 2001
  11. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    Haven,

    His stats went down slightly from last year to this year, but nothing noteworthy. Arizona developed as a team a lot more this year, and the scoring was distributed amongst several guys. Loren's main problem can be a lack of aggression on the boards sometimes, esp. against inferior opponents. There were several occurences in which he just seemed to be happy blocking his shots, and doing his thing on the offensive end. He can play physical, so I wouldn't call him soft-- his problem is that he isn't always as aggressive as he should be on the glass. However, with added weight and the motivation of playing in the NBA, I think his talent greatly overshadows the weaknesses he has. He's not perfect, but neither is anyone in this draft.


    ------------------
    The Mo Taylor Fan Site

    "Basketball players win basketball games. Athletes win track meets."-- Shane Battier

    Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more!

    Cat's Mock Draft
     
    #11 The Cat, Jun 25, 2001
  12. haven

    haven Member

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    neither is anyone in this draft.

    The more I think about it, the more I like hte idea of drafting a European. It seems to make sense: huge population base, only 3-4 draft candidates per year... they'd almost have to be among the best. I know the arguments to the contrary: the game is different, and basketball isn't as popular there... but I'd wager that the European game is similar enough that great shooting big men translate just fine... and I would wager that most guys that are 6'6 and above play some basketball.

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    Newbiehad... coming to a bbs near you, October 31st.
     
    #12 haven, Jun 25, 2001
  13. Speed

    Speed Member

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    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/mailbag_010625.html?nav=ArticleList........Q. Do you see the Pacers making any big trades around draft time this year to get a true center or any more help at any other positions? (From John in Lombard, IL) A. There is a very distinct possibility the Pacers will make a trade to get into the middle of the first round. Team president Donnie Walsh said Friday he has interest in acquiring a pick in that range and that there are a couple of players in mind. Naturally, he didn't name those players, but he didindicate that he did not anticipate being able to acquire a center of consequence inthe middle of the first round. Centers who project into that range are North Carolina's Brendan Haywood, Arizona's Loren Woods, DePaul's Steven Hunter and Stanford's Jason Collins, and the group has been generally been greeted with lukewarm response by team scouts...........................Q. I want your thoughts on some crass off-season speculation. Could Pat Ewing or Hakeem Olajuwon help the Pacers next year? With talented, young but raw centers in Primoz Brezec and Bruno Sundov locks for the roster, could one of these over-the-hill ''50 greatest'' help the young kids develop? And beyond that, could they help us get deep into the playoffs? (From Aamir in Chicago) A. Initially, I dismissed the possibility as running counter to the youth movement. But after discussing it with Donnie Walsh, it became clear that he will consider bringing in a veteran - although he didn't name names - as a short-term stop-gap at center. With Primoz Brezec and Bruno Sundov waiting in the wings, but not yet ready to step into full-time roles, it makes sense to bring in a solid veteran, not only to help the team on the floor this season and possibly next, but to provide an example for the young big men....................... Just a little food for thought.

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    #13 Speed, Jun 25, 2001
  14. Clutch

    Clutch Administrator
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    Unless the Rockets unload Cato in this deal, this would be a waste in my opinion. The Pacers overpaid Croshere and they'd have to take Cato off our hands to make it worthwhile. Even then we would be virtually center-less (I don't really count Jason Collier).

    I may be wrong, but this sounds like speculation combining the <a href="http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/krav24.html" target="blank">Indy Star article</a> and the Rockets' interest in Croshere last season ... but who knows.

    Also, do we really want another Dan Fegan client?

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    [This message has been edited by Clutch (edited June 25, 2001).]
     
    #14 Clutch, Jun 25, 2001
  15. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Contributing Member

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    Croshere sucks. As BGM stated in the other thread, he's a one-hit wonder. I'd rather have Bradley or Troy Murphy.

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    #15 Baqui99, Jun 25, 2001
  16. Achebe

    Achebe Contributing Member

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    Amen.
     
    #16 Achebe, Jun 25, 2001
  17. saleem

    saleem Contributing Member

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    I would only trade for Croshere if Indiana agrees to take Cato and the 18th pick.We should keep the 13th pick and take the best player available which I think at this time may be Woods.

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    #17 saleem, Jun 25, 2001
  18. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    I'm with you Cat! If Woods is there at 13 we take him. The 5 spot is our most glaring weakness.

    "He's not perfect, but neither is anyone in this draft."-The Cat

    That is so true [​IMG] and with Loren we know we are getting some proven tallent that can perform when the pressure is on.

    I would consider Woods at 13 and Morris at 23 a very good draft. Thats two guys that could have been projected in the top five a year ago.


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    [This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited June 25, 2001).]
     
    #18 crash5179, Jun 25, 2001
  19. MManal

    MManal Member

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    Once the Rockets fall under the cap, Cato's BYC completely disappears. Also, Croshere will become a 75% BYC player this summer, thus this type of transaction will be a whole lot easier to complete. I have no problem giving up Cato, who is a complete waste, along with pick 18 in order to acquire Croshere. Croshere is an excellent fit on this team and provides the toughness and determination this frontline sorely lacks. The zone will enable the Rockets to comfortably play Croshere at both forward spots and allow youngsters like Langhi to be brought along slowly. I would be ecstatic with the possibility of acquiring a center at 13 (Woods or Hunter), a two position forward with experience in Croshere for 18 and Morris at 23. This type of transaction ofcourse could not be completed until the free agent period opens and the Rockets fall under the cap, thus they would have to be drafting for Indiana.

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    Check out the Best Source for Draft Info

    Draftsource.net
     
    #19 MManal, Jun 26, 2001
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