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[OFFICIAL] Elizabeth Warren for President thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    What caused the eye roll were the assumptions he makes alongside the numbers.

    "Warren, whose profile in courage is to foment hostility toward a small minority (“billionaires”), should try an experiment — not at her rallies of the resentful, but with an audience of representative Americans. Ask how many in the audience own an Apple product? The overwhelming majority will raise their hands. Then ask: How many resent the fact that Steve Jobs, Apple’s innovator, died a billionaire? Few hands will be raised."

    The first question is weird. What if I bought cigarettes? Should the madmen behind Marlboro Man/Joe Camel be taxed 20%+ of their wealth if they were billionaires? Can I get a show of hands? Oh right...I changed the 2nd question, but I'm betting Will's reframed question (wrt to Warren's proposal) would get even fewer hands raised.

    Warren’s dependence on a wealth tax announces progressivism’s failure of nerve, its unwillingness to require anyone other than a tiny crumb of society’s upper crust to pay significantly for the cornucopia of benefits that she clearly thinks everyone wants — but only if someone else pays for them.

    As "fringe candidates" during their infancy, Warren and Sanders court using populist slogans with progressivism as its core. So his analogy w/ Warrent to Trump is apt, but I'm not buying that his original premise validates this point.

    Anyways, I'm not completely sold on Warren either, but that's one of the reasons why we have this convoluted process. How she adapts, manages and messages is the bigger insight for me than what Will is cooking.
     
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  2. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    At the same time it's silly to pretend like they are so far off that there couldn't be a reconciliation.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-p...eth-warren-solve-medicare-for-all-tax-puzzle/
     
  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Haters go home
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  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    [​IMG]

    Moderate: "Want to protect consumers and the vulnerable in the USA? Great."

    Warren: "We need to get rid of the electoral college."

    Moderate: "Alright,,,, give my best to Bernie."

    Moderate: "The corrupt orange haired asshole it is, I guess."
     
  5. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
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    Apart from any merits about the argument itself, politically these kinds of statements speak of bubble confinement, if you ask me.
     
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  6. dmoneybangbang

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    I mean sure... It’s an urban vs rural bubble and a nostalgia vs modernization bubble.
     
  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I honestly don't get the point. The Senate is the part of the government that gives rural less dense regions their over-representation so they don't get drowned out.
     
  8. dmoneybangbang

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    And the electoral college gives rural areas/less populated states over representation in presidential elections as urbanization became more than just a trend.
     
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  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Why do we need two branches that over-represent for the less dense rural pop?
    Doesn't it eventually just swing back to the point where urban voters become marginalized?
     
  10. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Haters go home
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  11. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Sure, but it also turns off rural voters. Also getting rid of the electoral college is quite radical. It also isn’t coincidence that radical democrats want to get rid of the EC after losing the Presidential election twice.

    It sounds and looks like sour grapes.

    I am trying to remember who it was, but one of the candidates actually suggested increasing the number of Supreme Court Justices.
     
  12. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    I think it's Warren.

    Since I'd go along with the idea, what's the worst that could happen?
     
  13. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian
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    I don’t have too much of a problem with he proposing it, but the question is why is she announcing this now? What does she gain from this.

    She keeps going after the far left vote, but the far left vote is already spoken for between her and Bernie. Unless one of them drops out (unlikely) there really is nothing left to mine by continuously pushing these kind of policies.

    At some point, if she wants to win the primary and eventually the presidential election, she has to start pivoting to grab some of the moderate vote. Unfortunately, for her, it doesn’t look like she’s willing to do that.

    At this point, If Liz or Bernie want to try to ride the progressive end of the party to win, one of them needs to bow out and endorse the other now. Unless that happens, I don’t see either winning this race.
     
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  14. nacho bidness

    nacho bidness Member

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    everything was rural when the electoral college was put in place

    drowning out urban votes was not the plan just kind of a byproduct

    it's pretty weird that we've had several recent presidents lose the popular vote yet win the presidency

    that's not typical so maybe it needs tinkering or abolishment
     
  15. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  16. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    My guess is that when she tried appealing to moderates her poll numbers dropped.

    I will also mention that I didn't even realize that advocating popular vote elections was that radical. I've seen it addressed in a lot of mainstream sites. But I guess it is. I don't feel strongly about it one way or the other. I can see argument from both sides.
     
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  17. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    maybe dont preach this in Iowa.

    its not weird at all. Campaigns dont try to win the popular vote. They try to win the electoral vote. Unless you are Hillary of course who tried to run up the score in California.
     
  18. nacho bidness

    nacho bidness Member

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    We've had lots of elections

    That kind of result is very atypical

    It's happened 4 times if you discount 1824 due to circumstances in which electors were placed legislatively

    Two of those times just happened recently

    Why should any state be overrepresented and others underrepresented?

    That's just weird
     
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  19. nacho bidness

    nacho bidness Member

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