1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[OFFICIAL] Elizabeth Warren for President thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,256
    Likes Received:
    9,650
    Politics aside, this impression was incredibly good and funny

    also some pretty funny lines, " i could explain this to you , but it would killlll you "
     
    jiggyfly and KingCheetah like this.
  2. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,985
    Likes Received:
    1,642
    She needed to be vague as possible about it because in the end if the Dems don't win the Senate it won't matter.
     
    snowconeman22, jiggyfly and Nook like this.
  3. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    26,611
    Likes Received:
    11,768
    She got the whispery voice and mania just right, I thought.

    Love the Harris volunteer who is still undecided. LOL.
     
    snowconeman22 and KingCheetah like this.
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    31,971
    Likes Received:
    29,874
    Yup, which is part of why there is some discomfort in the democrat party about all of this.
     
  5. Rocketman1981

    Rocketman1981 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,400
    Likes Received:
    398
    It is these arguments that has allowed government and licensing power to do things beyond the basic need for safety.

    The American Medical Association, American Dental Association and such are more akin to trade unions attempting to reduce competition so its members maintain their strong financial standing in the community. Many of their decisions that have paralyzed the natural growth of providers had nothing to do with safety.

    At the time it was critical to get a handle on unlicensed medicine and backwoods doctors but not they've gone too far and put a strangle hold on supply of providers and what tasks non-physicians can perform.

    What medical reason is there to limit the number of residency positions to foreign physicians despite their passing all the same examinations as US medical school graduates?

    It is what happens when you give a big lobbying trade group control over eliminating their competition.

    But you're right i just want fake cancer cures and I want peoples teeth to fall out o_O
     
  6. Roxfreak724

    Roxfreak724 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    865
    Likes Received:
    1,147
    I mean, the median policy is essentially a public option, or what some now are calling Medicare X. But between the public option and single payer there isn't much, other than maybe the French system.

    The truth is that if she was just honest, and presented a plan in good faith that was actually actionable and used more conservative estimates of the cost and financing, she would have at least earned my respect. Ya sure, maybe we don't get exactly get M4All after all the compromises and deals that are aa part of the legislative process, but damn you have to have a legitimate starting point that merits debate. If the public decides that they don't want to pay for the tax hikes necessary for M4All then sure, but don't play this kind of political BS with a looney plan that even proponents of M4All are appalled by.

    Bernie's has repeatedly stated BTW that there will be a parachute for workers in the insurance industry as part of any M4All plan. And there are many plans created by policy institutes that include that cost in the price of transition. If the by "liberals" you mean Corporate Democrats, then ya they don't give a sh** about working people. But don't conflate true labor stalwarts like Bernie into that dirty pot.
     
  7. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    327
    This.
     
  8. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    327
    The majority of Democrats are what you would call Corporate democrats.

    Why the vitriol?
     
  9. txtony

    txtony Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    10,346
    Likes Received:
    3,736
    Obama lie, you can't keep your doctor. Death panel.

    Those are pale in comparison to middle tax will go up. Maybe 20-30% understand the trade-off, the rest... good luck.

    Politic is an exercise in the realization of what you are working with, work with it efficiently and coming out as a winner, not what is sound and solid, or even reasonable.

    Realistically, there is NO M4A plan that would pass. There is probably not even a path there with ACA + Gov option. Unless something very unexpected happens, there simply isn't a path there for M4A of any kind with the Senate in 2020-2022.
     
    Nook likes this.
  10. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    13,941
    Likes Received:
    3,965
    I believe that you really believe you could deregulate and make things work better without any increase in danger to the consumer.

    I also believe it is fairly by-the-numbers utopian libertarian foolishness where free markets are akin to a kind of patent medicine that will fix whatever ails you, whatever it is.

    Thankfully we'll never get a chance to run the experiment in the real world, so we are at an impasse.
     
    jiggyfly and dmoneybangbang like this.
  11. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    39,872
    Likes Received:
    32,294
    .
    I meant a median between Bernie and Biden. She's trying to walk that tightrope to be electable and liberal at the same time and there isn't really a lane there. Look I'm liberal like Bernie but I'm consumer friendly like Biden, et al! Nah, the Biden style (or Buttigieg or whomever you prefer) is already the middle lane between current and M4A.

    And yes, I agree, she should be honest about the financing. That's what's driving people nuts about it. Her "I'm smarter than you and I won't answer your question because I'm too smart for that and your question is wrong!" attitude is super annoying to people. I applaud Klobuchar for going at her over it.

    I can't stand Elizabeth Warren. She's the worst kind of smart person. Gentile arrogance. Polite condescension. Passive aggressive. I will never vote for her. I don't agree with her plans and she makes it worse with her attitude.
     
    baller4life315 and Os Trigonum like this.
  12. Roxfreak724

    Roxfreak724 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    865
    Likes Received:
    1,147

    There honestly isn't a median between Biden and Bernie currently in the race, but I'm guessing you know that. A "style" isn't a middle lane in a policy debate.

    Buttigieg is pretty much a joke and gets away with saying nothing half the time, as the honeymoon period with the media ends the holes in his policies (or lack thereof) will become obvious. Biden meanwhile is lucky if his own campaign allows him to do 3 events a week smh.

    In terms of electability, the one thing no one is talking about is grassroots organization and funding. Biden is struggling to raise cash w/o PACS and he'll continue to flail until his campaign disintegrates. Bernie meanwhile never really dissolved the 2016 campaign, if anything that campaign has grown and become stronger in the last 2 years. It's now more of a network/organization than a campaign tbh.

    Winning elections is about energy, passion, and grassroots organization, that's the biggest lesson you can take away from Obama's victories. Most people don't really understand policy, they 'feel' it. Trump will be the favorite in 2020 no matter who the opposition is due to incumbency and the stupid electoral map. Doens't matter if they support M4All or not. The right candidate to beat Trump is simply the one who can inspire non-regular voters to storm the polls and create a historic victory, not the one who keeps playing electability games and tries to outsmart their way to the presidency.
     
  13. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    26,611
    Likes Received:
    11,768
    I don't dislike her nearly as much as you, and I would vote for her versus an admitted criminal, for example, but I understand the dislike.

    It's kind of like take the worst professorial parts of Obama that turned people off and turn those to 11. All those stories of her childhood just don't match up with the reality of her being an Ivy league prof for the last many years. She's an Ivy League prof trying to communicate with normal people. Not a good idea for the Dems, if you ask me. Fine for a Congress-person, of course.

    But again, I'd definitely vote for her over someone wrecking our democratic institutions. Yes, a thousand times.
     
    Rashmon, baller4life315, Nook and 2 others like this.
  14. Roxfreak724

    Roxfreak724 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    865
    Likes Received:
    1,147

    That can be said about any Democratic policy at this point. The current Senate Republicans are just a bunch of ideologues, there is no way to negotiate with those loons. My comment was specifically that even in a theoretical Democratic majority (even supermajority) legislature, Warren's bill would be met with ridicule and confusion. That's the frustration, it's not even good conversation starter with progressives.

    Any legitimately progressive policy proposed in this primary will require people to remain active after 2020 and vote out more fools in 2022, the winner of the presidency will have their hands tied if they cannot channel their campaign through 2020 and beyond.
     
    dmoneybangbang and CometsWin like this.
  15. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    39,872
    Likes Received:
    32,294
    By "style" I meant style of healthcare proposal and yes I'm agreeing with you.
     
    Roxfreak724 likes this.
  16. Roxfreak724

    Roxfreak724 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    865
    Likes Received:
    1,147
    Because those are the democrats that will need to either a) become bolder in their approach to politics and stand up for working people or b) will have to be primaried out of office
     
  17. Roxfreak724

    Roxfreak724 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    865
    Likes Received:
    1,147
    Agreed, no candidate is perfect. Warren is without question a million times better than orangutan in chief. And she does cross off a lot of checkboxes for me at least in the policy section. it will be up to us to support her to the presidency if she is the nominee and then hold her accountable once in office.

    But for now, I am on the Bernie train.
     
    Rashmon likes this.
  18. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    40,150
    Likes Received:
    5,777
    But if there were not private insurers would they only operate for patients that paid cash in full? I think that would be a difficult model under which to operate.
     
  19. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    40,150
    Likes Received:
    5,777
    I don't know. My guess is that she was formulating the specifics of the plan and hadn't finished. She knew the goals and why those goals were worthwhile. But until the specifics had been ironed out, she didn't want to comment on what it would look like. I'm not a part of her campaign staff, so I don't really know. I'm just guessing.
     
    jiggyfly likes this.
  20. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2002
    Messages:
    13,367
    Likes Received:
    998
    Why? SO Democrats become just like GOP and weed out the moderates? Not everything needs to be extreme, just look at how Trump is working out for the country.
     
    Nook, jiggyfly and Roxfreak724 like this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now