We can disagree on values but in terms of actual competence and knowledge on how the economy operates from bankruptcy laws, to wall street, Bernie is equivalent to the average internet comment section while Warren is a subject matter expert. I've never seen him once do a deep dive in policy and pretty much expresses platitudes that I already know. When I listen to Warren, I actually learn new things. I trust her in terms of competence by a mile. I think you'll be severely disappointed by Bernie if he becomes President. He'll be ineffective. If he was an ineffective legislator for 30 years, I have no reason to believe he'll be an effective president in implementing the ideas that we want.
Nonetheless, I have contributed to Warren for Senator in the past and I could vote enthusiastically for her against Trump. I do wonder how she will do in the upper Midwest. Perhaps with Bernie's issues which she has been incorporating and Trump's disgraceful presidency she can convince enough of the Trump voters and also expand the electorate enough to win. After the disasters of the centrist Obama I think that she wins she will learn that there is more to the presidency than impressive speeches, decorum and being a personal role model if you want to accomplish much. I see Warren's best role as of Secretary of the Treasury or maybe even Health and Human Services where she can put forward policy ideas rather someone rallying the American people for the enormous struggle that will required to overcome the one percent and their control of Congress and Courts.
I mean I would obviously vote Bernie over Trump just from the standpoint of morality and ethics alone. I would vote Joe ****ing Biden over Trump.
What, exactly, do you know about Bernie's "Medicare for all" plan? I'm truly curious, because even he doesn't lay out fundamental details of his plan. It's can be summarized as "all health care is free, and we'll raise money for it somehow but I won't say". It's benefits goes way beyond what other national health care plans offer, and it doesn't remotely outline how to pay for it or how it will get costs under control. It's essentially the definition of a slogan.
I have long been somewhat frustrated by your near ocd attention to details, which has its good and bad aspects. However, you have been making these types of stupid uninformed or researched charges about Sanders. start with this 6 page of details on how to raise the money. https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file
Now that the great experiment of bringing the jobs back has failed miserably im guessing most Americans would vote for anybody other than trump simply to not have a senile wet diaper in charge of our country.
That would be true, except there is a significant population who like using politics and the presidency just to stick it to the other team. It doesn't matter whether the guy they vote for is good for the country or themselves. It only matters if they can make the other team cry.
There is the element of this resentment of the elites, but they are not doing as well as they hoped for and wish to blame immigrants, liberals or anyone. Hopefully the Dems will not be running on "America is already great" as Hillary did. Good ol Joe as a return to the status quo will probably not cut it either.
I think Bernie is more likely to get it done because he wants it way more. Warren is more likely to settle on some Medicare buy-in program. Bernie shares no characteristics with Trump from what I see, and I'm not sure how you or anybody else could come to that conclusion. By the way, the establishment doesn't fear Trump, Trump is a shining symbol of what the establishment right is, just with bad words and p*rn star sex. The establishment left fears Bernie because he actually wants to execute his plans. It's a dirty word the majority of the time because the right doesn't compromise, they are good at playing the game of politics, they stonewall anything the left wants because it's what the left wants. The establishment left, also does not like to compromise when it afflicts their donors' interest. What happens when you compromise on something like Medicare for all, is that you don't get Medicare for all. I don't know what the most relevant issue is, but I find the military budget and our foreign affairs to be a huge issue for me. I don't understand how voting for increasing the military budget is a symptom, and I don't understand how you can get at the core of the disease that is the military-industrial complex while needlessly wanting to increase the budget. https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file
Did you really say Bernie will get it done because he wants it more? Do you not understand how government works?
Yes and yes. For any candidate to get Medicare for all passed, they will have to fight for it tooth and nail. They will have to fight for it like Trump fights for his wall, to fight for it that hard, you have to actually really want it and I'm sold on Warren going to war for it, at least not to the extent I feel Bernie would. 70% of Americans want Medicare for all, we need our elected officials to represent us, I trust Bernie would do everything he possibly could to make sure that happens.
So you think Trump is getting his wall? And you would be ok with Sanders doing the same things Trump is doing to get what he wants.
I'm trying to give an example of how much one's personal will can make a difference. Imagine if any other Republican won, they'd have rolled over on it the second it met resistance. That's a big worry with all these dems saying they want Medicare for all, they can say it but will they fight for it? Or roll over the second things get hard? Bernie wouldn't do anything illegal or unconstitutional, you know that.
Your example is one that has gotten nothing accomplished to the goal and has lost supporters. So do want something to actually get accomplished or do you just like the fight?
You're missing the point and then creating a false narrative. I think the alternative to not fighting hard is nothing gets accomplished, not the opposite. We can agree to disagree.
I am only using the narrative that you stated how can that be false? You where the one using an example of Trumps wall, something that will never get done but at least he is fighting right?
Again, I said it's an example of somebody fighting hard for something when many others would have given up far earlier, due to him personally wanting said thing. The reality is nobody could have gotten us closer to building a wall then Trump, would you agree? But this isn't the point anyways. The matters of the wall and Medicare for all are vastly different ones and I'm not comparing them, I'm just pointing out the effort and your trying to make a false gotcha point about the outcome when the subjects are uncomparable.
Trump has gotten nowhere near close to getting a wall. The closest he came to a wall was coming to compromise with Chuck and Nancy, which you claim is a dirty word. So I ask you again what does effort matter if you don't get your goal accomplished? Compromise has actually gotten more done than force of will every time.
This. I was shocked to see AOC and Cruz at least outwardly working together on tougher lobbying restrictions. (I don't have much faith in Cruz to actually follow through but I hope this happens.) There are some areas where good people can honestly and sometimes vehemently disagree, but there are other issues where most ideologies of good faith should be able to agree. Tip O' Neill did a great job with this.
Engaging in a discussion with assertions of "near OCD", "stupid" and "uniformed" is a good way to convince someone.
