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[Official] Astros Spring Training

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Castor27, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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  2. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    so long Springer?

    Sucks for teams that actually gave up real assets to get guys who would be free agents...
     
  3. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    For owners to generously agree to that, one has to think owners expect games to be played this year.
     
  4. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Do you honestly think they know any better than anybody else right now? Looking at how hard hit the NYC area is, and how it’s likely to get worse there over the next 2 weeks, it’s unreasonable to have any expectations right now.

    there’s no sports league in the world that is currently operating with business as usual.

    I also think the owners know there’s no way they can prevent these guys from becoming free agents. It’s not fair to the teams, but also not fair to the players. The players (especially the stars) usually end up winning those standoffs.
     
  5. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Yes, I think owners know what they think better than anyone else.
     
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  6. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    U think they know better regarding the logistics of hosting games (or merely gathering and traveling) during these times?

    we are probably a couple weeks away from air travel being completely halted temporarily.
     
  7. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Yes, I think they know what they think regarding the logistics of hosting games later in the year.
     
  8. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Great for them... I see the lack of sports has created senility...
     
  9. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    From what I've read the owners were working on a deal to pay a lump sum for partial lost salaries and did not want to be sued for the full salaries if there is no baseball. That is probably why they caved on service time.
     
  10. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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  11. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Nice passive aggressive ad hominem logic fallacy. Though, if arguing over what owners expect is a sign of senility...that would make us both senile...
     
  12. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    ... I actually wasn't referring to the owners.

    Thanks for trying to have a sane conversation about this.

    Anyways, I don't expect there to be a season this year... or if its a 30 game "token exhibition", so be it... but would have been nice to have a chance for teams to retain upcoming free agents for one additional year (even if they all had to get a one time lump sum bonus).
     
  13. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    #613 J.R., Mar 26, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
  14. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    #614 J.R., Mar 26, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
  15. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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  16. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    https://theathletic.com/1704718/202...eballs-deal-addresses-service-time-cash-flow/

    Economic disputes in a $10.7 billion industry seem rather inconsequential in this time of pain and suffering, but MLB players and owners still had to figure out how they would proceed with the disrupted 2020 season. With the COVID-19 crisis all but eliminating any chance of a 162-game season, there could be no winners in this deal, only losers. In the interest of cutting losses, each side had to choose its priorities.

    The owners fretted over cash flow. The players valued service time, and were guaranteed they would receive it, both in the event of a partial season in 2020, or if there is no season at all. The final terms of the agreement, as conveyed by sources, reflect the give-and-take that defines all labor settlements, and are expected to be approved by the owners in a conference call Friday.

    “Service time was the vital issue for us and feel like we got that covered fairly,” said Cardinals reliever Andrew Miller, a member of the MLB Players Association executive committee. “A generation of players will not be held back due to service time implications resulting from a partial season or in the unfortunate event of a canceled season.”

    The players agreed to prorated salaries if the 2020 season is shortened and also made compromises in the amateur draft, agreeing to changes for not only this year’s class but next year’s as well — changes that are already drawing criticism in the industry. But the alternative, some on the players’ side point out, could have been no draft at all in 2020.

    The two sides had little choice but to reach a deal. Without one, commissioner Rob Manfred would have needed to officially notify the union he was suspending all player contracts, a decision the league believed was necessary before the scheduled openers on Thursday. But the union was willing to delay more than once.

    This agreement amounts to a good first step. But before play can resume, much more will need to be resolved:

    • The deal ensures players will hold final approval on scheduling; the league cannot unilaterally determine how games are played, or when. Both sides say they desire to play as many games as possible. The agreement also allows for the regular season to extend into October, providing 31 more possible dates.

    • The postseason might be expanded and played, at least in part, at neutral sites.

    • Transactions will be frozen when the deal becomes official. The union and league must agree on the date they can resume.

    • Roster sizes are likely to expand at least for the start of the season coming off an abbreviated spring training, the way they did after the players returned from their strike in 1995.

    Other ideas will be in play as well, but by settling how pay and service time will work in a shortened or canceled season, the parties already might have overcome their biggest obstacles. They addressed the worst-case scenario of a canceled season only because of the need to account for every contingency.

    The turning point for the players was when the league agreed to grant service time in the event of a canceled season, allowing players to continue toward free agency or arbitration unimpeded. The number of days a player received in 2019 would be the same number he would receive for 2020. The players also will earn a full year of service in a shortened ’20 season, regardless of how many games the schedule includes.

    Service time, calculated by the number of days a player is on the roster or injured list, forms the basis of baseball’s pay structure, determining eligibility for salary arbitration and free agency. Some on the players’ side project one year of service to be worth $800 million in player salaries — certain second-year players earn more when they reach arbitration, certain third- and fourth-year players earn more as they advance through the process and certain fifth-year players earn more as they reach free agency. The ripple effects, according to one player representative, are “almost incalculable.”

    Still, the players’ gains in service time came at a price. They yielded on their full salaries for 2020 — probably a wise decision, considering any of their financial demands would have come across as tone-deaf with the economy in peril. Their case also might have been weak, based upon language empowering the commissioner to withhold salary in a national emergency.

    The players also yielded on the amateur draft, rationalizing it was better to ease the economic burden on owners for amateur talent both domestically and internationally than accede to the owners’ request to cancel the draft entirely. The owners also can delay the international signing period, scheduled to begin July 2, to as late as January 2021, according to ESPN.

    The owners seemingly wanted to protect against the downside of an estimated $4.5 billion payout to players in salaries and benefits in a canceled season. In addition to relenting on service time, they agreed to grant the players an advance payment of $170 million, spread over two months — “an important part of the deal as well,” Miller said. The money is to be divided among four tiers of players: those with guaranteed contracts each will receive $150,000, and players with different types of split contracts between the majors and minors will receive $60,000, $30,000 and $15,000.

    That money will not be repaid if the season is canceled, but the salaries the players will receive in a shortened season will be prorated based upon days on the roster or IL. The players also relinquished the right to sue the owners for their full salaries if the season is canceled.

    In effect, both sides received a form of cost certainty; the players know some amount of money is coming to them, and the owners know they will not have to pay everything they would in a normal season.

    The players’ concessions on the draft will be more difficult for some to accept, but should not be considered surprising. Potential high school and college draftees are not yet members of the union. Merely preserving the 2020 draft was something of a victory from the players’ perspective — the owners wanted to cancel the draft with the idea of reallocating their savings to other areas while operating with lower revenues.

    The agreement, however, gives baseball the right to shorten the draft from 40 rounds to five. Bonuses also will be deferred, with picks receiving an initial payment of $100,000 and getting the rest in equal amounts in 2021 and ’22. Non-drafted players can receive no more than $20,000, as opposed to $125,000 previously, before counting against a team’s allotment.

    Another notable limitation: The signing bonuses will remain at 2019 levels for next two years. The bonuses typically rise by about 3 percent, based upon increases in industry revenues.

    Agent Scott Boras, who rose to prominence in part due to his successes in the draft, expressed strong disapproval with the capping of bonuses, blaming the owners even though the players agreed to the measure.

    “It’s unconscionable the owners in this climate would reduce the collectively bargained money given to drafted players in the top rounds,” Boras said. “I don’t mind them reducing the rounds. That’s not the issue. It’s reducing the payments to those players. To cut their bonuses in this climate and use a pandemic situation in our country as a means to do that, I really find it unconscionable.

    “The best players do not deserve to have their bonuses cut. That’s who you should invest in.”

    The temporary rules will be in place at a time when baseball is seeking to reduce the number of minor-league affiliates and thus the overall number of minor-league players. High school players projected to go in the lower rounds might find it difficult to land with a college at this late date. College juniors who go undrafted might be forced to return for their senior years. Consider Cardinals first baseman Paul Goldschmidt, an eighth-round pick of the Diamondbacks in 2009. His All-Star career might have turned out entirely different if he had gone undrafted as a junior.

    At a time of extraordinary turmoil, no agreement was ever going to be perfect, not for players, not for owners, not for potential draft picks. But baseball had to start somewhere. Thursday night’s agreement positions the sport to figure out the rest.
     
  17. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    They know a LOT better than the general public..a LOT
     
  18. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    It sure hasn't kept some from thinking their opinion is always the right one and only one
     
  19. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    I won't say shocked, but i'll be very surprised if there isn't a season this year. This ran about a 2.5 month course in China before they were back out and living life at about 90% of normal. This really started here early March (yes Covid-19 was probably here in December, but the outbreak/panic started early March) so so even if are on a similar timeline of China we are looking at late May to start getting things going. I'll be surprised if we play more than 80-90 games, but would be shocked if there is no season

    And i'll add, if there is no season that means we kept up all of the stay home stuff for months, in that case it would be a looooong time before we saw sports as we have always known them, cause a large portion of the nation wouldn't be able to afford to support sports while in a full blown depression
     
  20. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I get that you keep trying to strawman argument into something else even though my comment was about what owners expect. For someone who considers inane banter a sign of senilty..............you keep posting an inane banter. I understand that I am being a jerk...I don't think you understand that you can be one as well.
     
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