[Official] Astros Off-Season Thread

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Castor27, Oct 2, 2016.

  1. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Contributing Member

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    The whole cheap contract thing gets overblown in these situations. If Sale gets traded, he's going to a big market team with deep pockets. They're not going to pay more his lower AAV deal because they don't care; they're price-insensitive. The Red Sox Yankees and probably Rangers wouldn't care if he was paid $20mil per year or $10mil.
     
  2. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Those ideas seem to counter each other - there's pressure to win... so they're going to trade a young, club-controlled ace to... rebuild? It would seem to shortest route to winning would be to build around two aces.

    Fans need to understand that if the Astros deal for Sale, it is going to hurt. And I disagree that they won't get a Bregman-like player in return (agree on Correa - but they'd be fools to not insist on him initially) - if big money teams like Boston or LA get involved, or even the Yankees - teams with the pockets to buy replacements at will... I think big names will get thrown around as the White Sox play them against one another.
     
  3. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Contributing Member

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    Agreed with the above-mentioned reasons of struggling the 2nd/3rd time through line-ups and being a 2 pitch guy.

    I do believe he's more valuable as a multi-inning MR than as a #5 too. There were times where it seemed like he pitched 5-6 times in 2 weeks and made a noticeable difference in every appearance. If the rotation had less durability question marks, it'd be fine going with a bunch of 1-inning only guys. Otherwise he's invaluable.
     
  4. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Contributing Member

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    They have no means to build around the two aces. They can't afford FA prices, the FA market sucks anyway, and their farm system is crap.

    The White Sox have been "stars and scrubs" team for years. They've tried to add pieces around the core, but for the above-mentioned reasons were limited and mostly unsuccessful.

    By trading Sale, they'd be shifting from the stars and scrubs approach to a more balanced team seeing as they're likely not getting a player of his caliber back.

    I think we all know it's going to hurt. What we don't know is if we'll be able to stomach the deal. If the Red Sox offer JBJ and a top pitching prospect, I don't know if I could stomach offering Bregman and McCullers. The Red Sox are just ridiculously deep in talented young position players right now.
     
  5. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Mitch Moreland hit .233/.298/.422 this season. He is a .254/.315/.438 career hitter. Mitch Moreland would just be another 1B we probably end up bitching and moaning about. He'd be an upgrade over White/Reed last season, but not so much that I wouldn't rather roll the dice with those 2 again with Marwin/Yuli also in the mix.

    Devenski isn't a two pitch guy. He throws a breaking ball about 20% of the time. Lance McCullers throws his 3rd pitch (changeup) less than 10% of the time. Most pitchers are primarily 2 pitch guys that mix in 3rd/4th pitches. Johan Santana was one of the best in baseball throwing primarily fastball/changeup with the occasional slider. In what limited time he had as a starter, he did better his 2nd and 3rd time through the order than the first (though way too small a sample to draw any conclusions). He would be more valuable as a lock down reliever like he was this season than as a mediocre starter, but we don't know what he would be in the rotation.
     
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  6. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The White Sox fans are willing to rebuild for 3 years. What the White Sox cannot afford to do is remain bad/mediocre over a long period of time.

    The White Sox have attempted to rebuild around their existing players for a decade without success. They simply lack the payroll or farm system to plug all of their holes.

    I don't think that Astros fans expect Sale or any other #1-2 starter to not hurt; but no team is going to deal young players under long term control that already are producing for Sale. When is the last time that a team traded players as established as Correa for a pitcher of the quality of Sale? The Red Sox and Astros will both offer a lot for Sale, but you are not going to see Correa, Bregman or Betts going to the White Sox. Sale is a legitimate ace, but he isn't a top 5 starter in baseball.
     
  7. awc713

    awc713 Member

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    Unfortunately, I'd bet that any trade for Sale, with HOU, starts and ends with us giving Bregman.
     
  8. houstonstime

    houstonstime Member

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    Hope we can get another SP with a last name K... lol need that full house of M's over K's.
     
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  9. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Well, as I keep saying/asking - I think the more relevant question is when has a pitcher of Sale's age, salary and resume been made available? I don't think Correa - or a player of his ilk - will be dealt; merely that the Sox would be foolish not to start their conversations with him.

    And while a deeper dive into Sale does turn up doubt as to his "ace" status... He will be, if made available, the far and away best pitcher available, and the line for him will be long and distinguished.
     
  10. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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    I wonder how many teams are having this same conversation about Sale.
     
  11. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    Dodgers, Astros, Rangers, Red Sox, Yankees (+ farm systems)

    And others will obviously look to jump in.
     
  12. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Yeah, if those teams are involved, then the standards are high enough to likely disqualify a lot of teams. Few can match that group in terms of quality systems and urgency. Having said that, the Diamondbacks spent 4 gajillion dollars on Grienke last year so you never know... The Braves could, from a system standpoint, certainly compete with that group.
     
  13. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Did the Astros farm system really go shallow? They do still have depth enough to make some major deals... the problem is whether or not they're even willing to include some of the best prospects to make the current MLB team better (or are they willing to wait till 2019-2020 for the youngest of prospects to eventually be in their prime to join Correa/Bregman/free-agent Altuve?)

    Luhnow admitted that the trade deadline could have gone differently had they known what was on the horizon (impossible to foresee)... but that does indicate that deals could have possibly been done with what the farm system has (even without including Bregman/Musgrove... talking more about Martes, Paulino, Feliz, Tucker, Fisher, Cameron).

    Also, off-season asking prices always go down from the trade deadline ones.
     
  14. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    I see I am late to the party, the farewell to 2016 party that is.

    A few thoughts about 2016: Like most everyone else, going into this season, I expected great things. The way 2015 ended, it sure looked like we were poised to go far. It didn't happen and its not entirely clear why. The Rangers? Top starters down and out? Offensive regression?

    Winter 2016: We wont be fooled again. No misconception that some major changes are needed. There is little doubt in my mind that the brass this winter will be aggressive. With the thin FA market, I am a little afraid that when its all done and over (winter upgrades), most of us will be disappointed. It does seem likely that if we want a big haul, we are going to have to give up something. A trade of some sort is in order. The FA pool just looks too barren to yield the kind of upgrades we need. We will just have to see how deep the brass is willing to go into our prospect pool to land something worthwhile.

    Outlook 2017: The most optimistic thought I can find is to realize how wrong we were about 2015 meaning we could be wrong about 2016 as well. Overall, things were not as great as they seemed following 2015 and they may not be as dire as they seem right now. A lot went wrong. The average to the mean hopefully points to 2017 being better.
     
  15. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    Our talent is sorta at two extremes right now . A lot of high end young players are already in MLB , Correa McCullers bregman etc . Our other highest ceiling guys are down in single A ... Which isn't a big deal , but we don't really have that top talent in the high minors aside from maybe Martes and martes alone isn't enough to net anyone .

    Martes , tucker , and Whitley is a hell of a package but it's high risk too .
     
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  16. awc713

    awc713 Member

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    One sleeper team that I expect to be in on Sale, (and that certainly has the pieces to complete a deal) is Atlanta. IIRC, reports around the trade deadline mentioned that ATL was aggressive on the trade front, some reports specifically citing Sale.
     
  17. Bear_Bryant

    Bear_Bryant Member

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    And Encarnacion just earned himself some extra money.
     
  18. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    MLB Rumor Central: Potential suitors for Lourdes Gurriel emerging

    Free-agent infielder Lourdes Gurriel -- Yulieski Gurriel's younger brother -- is attracting some attention from major league teams.

    Jon Heyman of Today's Knuckleball writes that Lourdes "had a nice showcase a couple weeks back and is in the process of setting up private workouts for a half-dozen or so teams."

    Teams that have shown interest in the 22-year-old Cuban shortstop/second baseman, according to Heyman, are: the Miami Marlins, who will give him a "close look;" the Houston Astros, who will look at him in a private workout, and the Boston Red Sox.

    Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch writes that several St. Louis Cardinals senior scouts have been looking at Gurriel, including at a recent work out in Panama City. The Cards will discuss scheduling a private workout for Gurriel, per Goold.

    Goold also writes that some scouts consider Lourdes to be a better all-around player and hitter than his older brother, and his style of play has been compared to that of Cardinals shortstop Aledmys Diaz.

    Heyman notes Lourdes' age -- he's a decade younger than Yulieski -- "fits Boston's M.O."

    In a 36-game stint with the Astros this season, Yulieski hit .262 with three home runs and 15 RBIs.
     
  19. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    What the **** does that mean?? Have the Red Sox cornered the market on coveting young, talented players? What a remarkably stupid comment. Heyman has a Hall of Fame vote, by the way.
     
  20. Fyreball

    Fyreball Contributing Member

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    I had the same reaction to that comment. I guess the other 29 teams in the league don't like young, talented players full of potential. Obviously finding THOSE types of players is something the Red Sox were brilliant enough to create a pipeline for.....
     
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