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[Official] Andrew Yang for President 2020 Thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Roxfreak724, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. Roxfreak724

    Roxfreak724 Member

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    With Andrew Yang finally registering in a national poll at 1% (recent Monmouth poll, can be found here) I thought it was time to have a thread for him.

    For those unaware of Andrew, he is a former silicon valley entrepreneur that views automation as the most destructive economic force over the next 10-15 years that, if left unaddressed, will cause widespread displacement of workers, economic anxiety, and unrest. His primary solution to begin addressing this solution is the Freedom Dividend (or UBI) which will hand $1000 to all citizens 18 and up in this country per month. Links to videos below for further research:




     
  2. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    Just read his wiki. I like that he's self made w/o the deep attachments of Silicon Valley.

    That said, UBI is still an extreme concept in a nation that prides its culture of overworking in order to look productive or present.

    Many Cons think a universal handout would be a wash, and similarly the Trump voters in the midwest rejected Hillary's plan because 1) she talked over them while claiming it's "in their best interests" and 2) they wanted something more than what the black and browns got (Hillbilly Elegy oh my!).

    I think the best proponent to sell a UBI to that demographic, the ones who take pride in their work and romantically imagine they are (or could be) a coal miner, would be a blue collar politician who has worked in a factory/warehouse, and lives/accepted a lifestyle a hipster would snark and scoff at ie...Church on sundays, celebrating at the Red Lobster/Olive Garden, rockin some country music while hanging out at a simple bar (not a dive bar or gastropub and no pw/checkin necessary).

    The social divide is real, but it's not that deep. We all pretend it is to make ourselves feel better.
     
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  3. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    His universal income plan would get zero democrat votes and maybe about a third of the Republican votes. Democrats are not going to give up Medicare, Medicaid, wellfare, food stamps, and other entitlements. Also his vat tax calculation is assuming businesses dont react and adjust to the new massive tax.
     
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  4. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    UBI doesn't work. More far left crap from the dems who are out of touch with the working class. People want to work. That said, I also do like Yang because he isn't the worst choice at least? At least the guy knows how to speak and isn't a fool like most of the Dems trotted out. He stands a chance in a debate.

    He speaks to the left out people very well actually with what he says, but he is just telling people they are victims and says he wants to rescue them. And his solution just doesn't work.

    Also 1,000 dollars a month is so arbitrary and a number he just pulled out of thin air because it is a strong number. Why 1,000? There needs to be better planning for something like this if you are going to attempt it, rather than just guessing that 1,000 will fix it.
     
    #4 dachuda86, Feb 19, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  5. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    He isn't proposing to get rid of those, he's proposing it as an alternative to benefits, or an addition to those benefits UP to the $1000 threshold of total benefit value.

    The example he uses is - if someone is getting 700 in food stamps, and wishes to keep that benefit, they will get an additional $300. If someone is getting over $1000 in benefits from food stamps, housing etc then they can keep those benefits and they won't be effected.

    Anybody getting benefits could choose to opt out of whatever their getting of course, and just take the grand.

    I think this is a system no democrat or left person would oppose as there isn't a reason to.
     
  6. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    as a more efficient substitute for all other wealth redistribution schemes, sure

    but not as a supplement
     
  7. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    It doesn't stop anybody from working. That's the difference between this and the current social security system, you aren't incentivized to not work, there are zero restrictions, UNLIKE the current social programs. So what in the world are you talking about?

    There's no proof that it doesn't work, either.
     
  8. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    It doesn't punish you for working, but it rewards you without working.

    In the long run this discussion is academic. Once the world inevitably moves to a bitcoin standard, there will be no ability to forcibly implement these schemes.
     
    jcf likes this.
  9. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    If somebody already has the means to pay for their healthcare, food, and shelter through social programs or their own money, then why would I give them money? UBI was uncle milty's idea and this guy just doesn't understand it at all.
     
  10. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Simple economics that I've explained on this forum. UBI will raise prices and devalue our currency. We would have to be prepared to increase inflation and continuously adjust to that. If there is an actual plan for that, then you still have the issue of paying for it, which would mean taking it from somewhere which would hurt business, borrow while in debt, or just print the money which would increase inflation more. It isn't a simple fix, and I am not talking about a bit of inflation. Inflation as in leading to hyperinflation more than likely, which is no bueno son.
     
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  11. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    The reward is a pathway to keep people above the poverty line, and hopefully, enable the middle and lower classes to retain if not grow it's wealth during the automation and technological revolution that is taking place

    I'm confused on your last comment means, you predict we won't be able to forcibly implement social programs once a system like bitcoin takes over as currency. So you think the tax system will be eliminated, and that we wouldn't be able to fund any social programs, no publically funeded schools, police, healthcare or fire departments? Or did I totally miss the point?
     
  12. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Firstly, I don't think you are giving anybody money, as I don't think Yang in proposing tax increases on the middle/lower class. If you own a very large company, or are part of the top 1% than it may involve your money. If I'm wrong on this let me know but I haven't heard him mention tax increases on the working class.

    And if somebody already has the means to pay for all of their necessity's through social programs they can just keep their social programs and they won't receive any money UNLESS they are receiving less then 1k in social program benefits, at that point they would get the difference in cash. IF they did not want the cash as they are already set, they can choose to not receive the money and send it as a donation.

    That's Yang's proposal I believe.
     
  13. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    This is not at all how taxation works. Either amazon will raise their prices or leave the country. Either way it's always lower and middle class paying the bill
     
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  14. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    You advocate a middle class person who can pay for their healthcare, food, and shelter get a one thousand dollar check in the mail monthly supposedly coming from the top 1% but not really.

    You want to forcfally take from others and give to people who can already take care of themselves. For what?
     
  15. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    That's not sustainable. Taxes need to be raised on the rich ... without the middle and lower class paying for it. It's crazy how that's unfathomable to so many.

    I don't think you and many others understand, the entire system will collapse if wealth keeps being extracted from the poor. Over half of the working class makes 30k or less a year, the cost of living is continuously rising, wages are stagnating to declining, automation and technological advancement are about to deliver a serious blow to the working class.
     
    Sweet Lou 4 2 likes this.
  16. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Yang isn't proposing to borrow or print money.

     
  17. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    Low income wages have been stagnate for a couple decades, but you aren't trying to solve that. You are trying to (badly) solve wealth disparity by moving money from the rich to the poor . That wont change low income wages.
     
  18. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    It's a proposal that keeps the poor and middle class from crumbling to a point that destroys the country. Increasing the wealth in low/middle-income family's will increase both their own, and their children's health and education, which leads them being much more likely to play a positive role in society.

    In Yang's words, it's not the solution, it's a solution that leads to the solution.

    I don't think UBI is the only solution, but either it, or something else that delivers the same end goal of retaining/increasing wealth for the lower/middle class through the automation/technological revolution has to be set in place for this country to not become a full blow plutocracy that ends with the lower/middle class crumbling to hell.
     
  19. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    That's fine, but it still causes inflation.

    The real solution is to fix wages by making the worker more scarce. You do this by illiminating the massive illegal workforce we are haboring. This moves wages up! The easiest solution for all citizens.
     
  20. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    Here's the problem I see with Yang. If you listen to him he is saying a large portion of our population is going to lose their jobs to automation and in fact he believes that is why Trump won. He says there is a direct correlation to jobs lost to automation in counties that Obama won and Trump then won.

    So how the hell is giving someone a thousand bucks a month going to do anything if they lose their job making 50-75k to automation? Sounds like a huge loss for workers and big win for his corporate buddies in silicon valley building the automation.
     
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