1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[NY TIMES] A Truckload of Nike Shoes, Left as ‘Bait,’ Stings Chicago

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Aug 25, 2018.

  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    31,682
    Likes Received:
    42,831
    I honestly do not have an opinion on this, I could see it both ways. Just curious what people here think.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/us/chicago-bait-truck.html
    permalink: https://nyti.ms/2BIKeFV

     
  2. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    20,237
    Likes Received:
    3,574
    It’s bullshit and it doesn’t fix problems
     
    mdrowe00 and B-Bob like this.
  3. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    27,114
    Likes Received:
    13,006
    Yeah, what dangerous community-destroying career criminals are they catching this way? Few, I would think. Probably just giving a bunch of poor kids their first offense. Great!
     
    mdrowe00 and R0ckets03 like this.
  4. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost clean your room bucko

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    41,361
    Likes Received:
    6,101
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  5. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    27,114
    Likes Received:
    13,006
    "Hey gaiz, I has lazy way to make monthly collar quota. Come listens to thiz!"
     
  6. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    31,682
    Likes Received:
    42,831
    not sure about that, this was a railroad police-led operation by the Norfolk Southern RR: "'Operation Trailer Trap' was led by Norfolk Southern Railway, with officers from its own police unit, and was orchestrated on Aug. 2 and 3 after several thefts of parked and locked freight trucks and containers in the immediate area."

    Freight theft from trains, containers, 53' trailers on highways, etc. is a genuine problem, no?
     
    Yung-T likes this.
  7. jcf

    jcf Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Yes. Sounds like the railway had been targeted in the past. The thieves cut locks to steal the cargo. And no teens were arrested. Article says men with ages of 21 to 59.

    Not sure why the thieves are the victims here.






     
    Duncan McDonuts and durvasa like this.
  8. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    26,398
    Likes Received:
    5,669
    Wow, this is stunning in so many ways. Really - Nike shoes? Who decided that.
     
  9. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    32,719
    Likes Received:
    7,822
    It’s hard for me to see how people committing an obvious crime, breaking into an unmarked truck, are the victims here.

    Treating them as such is just sending a message that hooliganism is not a big deal. Is that making these communities safer?
     
  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    26,398
    Likes Received:
    5,669
    They aren't the victim, no.

    But if you leave something around with the intent of baiting someone to take it and then accusing them of a crime, what does that make you?
     
  11. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    32,719
    Likes Received:
    7,822
    Are you against all sting operations, or are you considering this entrapment (despite these sort of breakins being common, which is why they the operation was conducted)?
     
  12. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    26,398
    Likes Received:
    5,669
    This wasn't a sting operation, and calling it entrapment is generous. I mean, putting a truckload of shoes in an impoverished neighborhood is more of a sick joke. You want to say that people who are living in poverty aren't going to steal shoes? How is that close to a sting operation which is meant to capture organized criminals.

    How many of us if starving and saw a bakery truck woudn't try to open it and get something to eat? At what point does doing something like this cross a line?
     
  13. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    32,719
    Likes Received:
    7,822
    If they were starving, let them go. Being merely poor is not an excuse to loot. And I don’t think it’s inevitable that any poor person would do so. In the article, someone complained about them being treated as animals. This is exactly what you are doing when you argue that any poor person would of course break in to an unmarked truck.
     
    jcf likes this.
  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    26,398
    Likes Received:
    5,669
    Clearly you have never experienced poverty.
     
  15. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    32,719
    Likes Received:
    7,822
    Did you or do you steal from others and think it justified, when experiencing poverty?

    Rationalizing that breakins and theft are just fine if you are poor is a great way of keeping communities poor. Why would more well off people want to be in those communities if their own property rights are not respected, and therefore why would businesses want to operate there?
     
    Space Ghost and jcf like this.
  16. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 1999
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    1,238
    I've never met nor heard of a railway cop before. Are they like state troopers of the railroads?
     
  17. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    27,114
    Likes Received:
    13,006
    In the days of the hobos, (e.g. dust bowl and depression times), they were seriously known to be ruthless.
     
    Kim likes this.
  18. jcf

    jcf Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    if it was a food truck and starving people, absolutely understand your position. But poverty can't be a justification for theft (particularly sport shoes). If so, why isn't it an equal justification for shop-lifting, breaking into homes and businesses, etc.

    Poverty might explain why some people are more desperate to steal. But it shouldn't justify criminal behavior. And Durvava's argument re: using poverty as a free pass is essentially saying they didn't have any control over themselves is a good one.
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  19. jcf

    jcf Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Also, article states that the railway was hit before. So, they weren't just targeting a community. the railway appears to have some need or reason (a storage station?) to leave railcars in the area and has been victimized before.

    This appears to be an effort to prevent it from happening in the future.

    This reaction of moral outrage over this seems through the looking glass to me.

    Have you ever been robbed? Was your reaction: "well, i'm sure this was justified. The one who stole my possessions probably needed them or the money they could bring more than me."

    If so, you are a better person than me. Mine would be: "I can't believe I was robbed. What a criminal. I hope they catch him/her."
     
  20. nickb492

    nickb492 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    2,767
    Likes Received:
    1,080
    Don't agree with your stance because that would be like blaming someone who bought a nice car in that neighborhood that had it stolen. Poverty doesn't justify theft. The orginal piece I saw on Vice didn't make it sound like they were authorities with the railroad. I think some of the outrage was that the public thought it was Chicago PD doing which infuriated locals that they would do this instead of trying to stop violent crimes which is totally understandable. But trying to stop theft of the railroad led by them does not seem wrong in my opinion.
     
    deadlybulb and jcf like this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now