Nuggets, Nikola Jokic plan to reach agreement on 5-year, $146.5M contract

You think he's better than which of those PG13, Hayward, Butler, KAT, Horford, Kyrie, Lillard, Wall, Thompson, Green, Lowry, DD, Simmons, Embiid?

 

Depends on who your best player is, and how good your complimentary pieces are.

 

Lebron James....Denver's cast.

Not getting a ring.

 

I think he's better than Horford, Kyrie, Wall, Thompson, Lowry, DD, and Simmons.

I think Simmons will probably prove me wrong next year. His ceiling is crazy high if he learns to shoot.

Lowry and DeRozan are on the decline. Same with Wall.

Thompson is overrated.

Horford is great but declining. I would trust Jokic over Kyrie and his injury record. Neither are good defenders.

KAT, Butler, and maybe PG13 are better. Hayward too, if he comes back 100% (which he should). Lillard is better. Green is a top 20 guy, likely better, but he also can't be a focal point on offense like Jokic. Arguably more valuable because he can anchor a championship defense.

 

I mean were paying Ryno $20 million .......

 

Totally disagree. He is the prototype center that you want in the modern NBA. He has a post game and can step out to the 3 point line. He can also have the offense run through him as he is an incredible passer with fantastic court vision. Offensively, he is literally everything you would want in a modern NBA center. Defense will come with better shape. He is asked to do way too much offensively right now. Harris had a bit of a down year and the workload on Jokic was too much. As a big man, he can't be asked to be the go to scorer and the PG, thats a lot for him to handle physically.

 

As the game is perimeter orientated, it seems the prototype center for this era are defensive bigs. these type of guys (jokic, Kp, Kat, etc) are good to have on a team of course as they are talented but we have yet to see a team where the best player is their big and are a legitimate championship contender but you can still have a good team with them obviously depending on who it is

 

One of my favorite players to watch, definitely worth the max. He's only been in the league 3 years with more room to improve.

 

I think this past season Joker was a top 10 player in the league.

I do believe his defense is very suspect, and he is definitely a match up problem against guards with quick first steps.



It's really hard to defend a big that will be in the western conference playing against players like Lillard, Harden, Curry, and Westbrook on a daily basis. To be fair, not a lot of these bigs can defend these guards so it's a bit unfair to pick on Joker about it. He's not Enes Kanter at least. If Nikola can really, really improve his rim protection then that would be fantastic. There is no reason to deny his offensive excellence. He might be the best offensive big man in the league short of Anthony Davis. Offensively, Nikola's playmaking is in the realm of the elite ones. Paul, Harden, LeBron. That type of level. He simply makes his team mates better, and makes impossible passes.

He is one of the best offensive players in the league, and that alone makes him a top 10 player in the league. I don't undervalue efficient scorers who can also facilitate at a high rate with a low amount of turn overs. He also can get you 8 to 12 boards a night. An efficient 20-10-7 guy is pretty sick to have.

 

I guess we don't really know yet. KAT, KP, and Jokic are all 23 and under and they are really the first players of their kind. If big men are ever gonna be relevant again, these are the types of players that can do it. I think its worth the investment, especially for a team like Denver

 

Defence will come with better shape is a very optimistic opinion. Especially when it comes to Jokic who has slow feet and lacks the athletic gift to be a shotblocker/rim protector.

The number one responsibillity of a center always is to be the orchestrator of defence and the rim protector. When you are bad at your main job and responsibillity then all the other while very important pale in comparison.

 

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2016/sort/DRPM
Joking was a top ten defensive RPM player two years ago. No way that holistic stat is wrong completely


https://www.basketball-reference.co...=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=mp_per_g_req&order_by=bpm

Top 5 in Box Plus minus back to back years.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/fiveth...the-best-nba-players-is-vastly-underpaid/amp/
Superstars are always underpaid!

Facts! Haha

 

In the past maybe. That hasn't been the case in his time in Denver. His biggest responsibility is running the entire offense. No other Center is asked to be the PG the way he is. He is also playing along the perimeter as well as in the post. As his offense responsibilities have grown, his defensive abilities have slipped.

 

You can give me all the links in the world there is no link that can convince me that Jokic is a good defender, let alone deserving of top 10.

 

yes. I don't say he's not a great playmaker and amazing offensive player. However it's not that he focuses more on O ..but that he is incapable of good D.
If there is a point in the game when you have to tight your defence, then can he do it? No.

Kat and Jokic are both horrible defenders. However the difference is that with Kat I still have some hopes, but with Jokic I don't see any way he improves his lateral quickness or his block timing, or improves his wingspan etc For me he is doomed to always be a at best, a bellow average defensive center. It's not the end of the world but it's a huge flaw since he is a C.

I like Jokic for the record but NOT for 29 million dollars.

 

I can agree with most of what you're saying, and like i said i love Jokic, but his defense in today's game is going to be a problem (at least when it matters), i don't see how he'll be able to improve, you either have lateral quickness etc or you don't.

 

Facts > opinions

 

There are a lot of max contract players, but you want to give those contracts to the right players. Look at James and Russell.
As much as I hate Danny Ainge, we have the same idea of not getting caught having to reward their players the max contract or near-max, even when they look like they deserve it.

 

Very few big men can defend in the perimeter. That's why high PnR is used so much in today's offense. There's no way around it. Of the few bigs who can actually defend outside, almost none is great on offense.

 

If you provide me a stat that says jokic is a good defender. I will show you a flawed stat.

Jokic is awesome. He’s incredibly fun to watch and his playmaking from the 5 is soooo unique.

Jokic is a star and a top player in this league. Whether that is top 15 or top 30 is open to opinion and preference.

Jokic is a lot of things. What he is not, by any means; is a good defender.