Basketball News has a link to a chat transcript with their editor Steve Greenberg on their front page. In the transcript, he says that NBA scouts and front office people have concerns about Martin playing the 4 in the NBA. He also gives his top 8 players for the draft. It was interesting to me because it goes against all the conventional wisdom about Martin. www.basketballnews.com/
This guy doesnt know what he is talking about. ------------------ President of the Moochie Norris FAN CLUB
If any scouts say that they are not sold on Martin, THATS PURE BS. He will be a succesful PF along the lines of Brand. However, due his height, depending on well he deals with that, will be the difference from a whether he is a star(his hops are astounding). He's defintely starter material. ------------------ The Mall Kid is Back! Visit Draft Source, the number #1 source for Houston Rockets draft info.
I agree with the guy. I am skeptical about Martin's chances in the NBA. However, he is a very hard worker, and Antawn Jamison has proved to me that can take you a long way.
At 6'9" and 230 how is he a 'tweener? He's averaging 18.9 pts and 10.1 rebs a game in college. These aren't exactly Ralph Sampson stats, but I think he'll be fine at the 4 in the NBA. Other similar PFs: Kenny Thomas (6'8" 260), Elton Brand (6'8" 260), Terry Cummings (6'9" 250), Antonio Davis (6'9" 230), Andrew DeClerq (6'10" 230), LaPhonso Ellis (6'8" 240), Danny Fortson (6'7" 260), Brian Grant (6'9" 254), A.C. Green (6'9" 225), Othella Harrington (6'9" 235), Tyrone Hill (6'9" 250), Larry Johnson (6'7" 235)), Popeye Jones (6'8" 250), Jerome Kersey (6'7" 245), Karl Malone (6'9" 256), Donyell Marshall (6'9" 230), Tony Massenburg (6'9" 250), Antonio McDyess (6'9" 220), Charles Oakley (6'9" 245), Bo Outlaw (6'8" 210), Shareef Abdur-Rahim (6'9" 230), Rodney Rogers (6'7" 255), Malik Rose (6'7" 255), Dennis Rodman (6'7" 220), Derek Strong (6'9" 240), Maurice Taylor (6'9" 260), Kurt Thomas (6'9" 230), Gary Trent (6'8" 250), etc... ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.
Dreamer, most of the guys you mentioned are 20 or 30 pounds heavier than Martin is. Plus, is Shareef Abdur Rahim even a pf? I thought he was a sf.
Yeah, but what did they weigh in college? 15 of the players I listed above weigh 20+ more pounds than Martin. 13 of the players I listed above weigh less than 20 pounds more than Martin. ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem. [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited March 01, 2000).]
Dreamer, Except for Karl Malone, every one of those guys you mentioned is a 2nd tier power forward (not that this is necessarily bad). The top tier (All-Star Caliber) of PF's include (in my mind): Tim Duncan Kevin Garnett Chris Webber Shawn Kemp (well, a couple of years ago) Vin Baker (same) I don't know the size-stats of these guys, but I think they are all significantly taller/bulkier. I would guess the smaller guys will have a much tougher time getting to that elite status (especially playing defense against the above), which is what people are looking for in a top pick.
I live in Ohio and it is not surprising to me. I catch most of the U Cincy games and Kenyon needs more of a shot. There is no question as to Martin's skills. He is listed 6'8" or 6'9". I liik at his frame and he needs to bulk up. At Kenyon's size he cannot bang w/ mailman, Kemp, etc. Martin will be a 3 in the NBA and be a top 3 pick. ------------------ We would like to get rookie Francis on the break for some easy scoops in the first quarter...
Duncan is a Center. No matter what anyone else claims. Duncan is as much a power Foward as Ralph Sampson was. Garnett isn't he actaully a SF? Kemp. Is actually a center now. Many claim how he's beefed up, but the man is playing Center on the Cavs. Vin Baker? Ummm alrighty Ive heard all the reasons why Kenyon won't excell. First it was his size. Thing is, he's about an average PF. People said he had no offense. He's disproved that claim. Then it was he didn't have a jumper. Ive watched him several times this year, and he has a sweet 12-15 footer. Finally it was he had no post up game. Kenyon has a wonderful repitoire for a young man.
Kenyon is the real deal. His hops are incredible ! ------------------ We would like to get rookie Francis on the break for some easy scoops in the first quarter...
Isn't it funny that the Houston Rockets need a front court presence. Stop the friggin' presses. (excuse me while I chew on this one a while) ..... anyway, If Kenyon is there, of course we take him. If he's not... remember who was predicted to be the #1 at the beginning of the season (pre-2500$ issue) Chris Porter. If we have Detroit or Orlando's pick to use after ours (and if teams are going to play it safe vs. sheer skill) take him. Hell, trade the early pick + the exception for a vet. and use the later pick for him. At 6'7" and ~220 he'd be solid at the 3. And the earlier pick would be put to better use. [This message has been edited by Achebe (edited March 02, 2000).]
I would swap V Baker to the 2nd tier and move Antonio McDyess to the bottom of the 1st tier of Power Forwards. Mango
I think you guys are making too much of a deal out of this. About the last 'sure thing' I can think of was Tim Duncan, and anyone who thinks Kenyon Martin is a lock to be as good as Duncan needs to have their head checked. Scouts had legitimate questions about guys like Vince Carter, Elton Brand, Paul Pierce, just to name a few. Also, I'm sure that some of you out there _loved_ guys like Chauncy Billups. The question about Kenyon Martin is whether the 6'9" 230 number is the truth, or is it slightly less. I meen, if he actualy turns out to be 6'8" 210, couldn't this make him not quite the best in the class. That doesn't mean he's going to suck, it means that he may have some limitations. And DREAMer, how many of the guys you mentioned would be #1 overall type guys? I count maybe 4? Think about it, the guy isn't saying that he's a second rounder.
To all those who are questioning the players I listed: The question I was trying to answer was on his size, because in the article he's called a 'tweener. I was therefore, merely showing that someone of Martin's size wasn't necessarily too small to play PF. Kenyon Martin is much more athletic (i.e runs well, jumps well) than just about every one of the players I listed except Antonio McDyess. So, after dispelling the size question, you now bring up the question of talent. Well, that's a different story. I personally think he has the ability to be sorta like a McDyess. They are very similar in athleticism and they both block shots, but Martin may have the edge on power or size. I just want someone to tell me what Karla Malone weighed when he was a rookie! ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.
I am also from Ohio and I have watched Martin the last couple of years. He is truly an athlete. I don't know if this is a plus/minus but he only developed an offensive game this year. As someone else mentioned he does need more work on his offensive game though. Also he does need to bulk up, he is too thin. I think as a worse case scenario he becomes a Cato, great athlete, good shotblocker. As a best case scenario if he develops a good offensive game he has a very high ceiling.
I think Ottomans point is well taken. Is he really 6' 9" and 230. If he is, with his athleticism, that is plenty enough size to be a dominant four. Malone is only 6' 9', Brand is only 6' 8" and Charles is well, a generous 6' 6" (really 6 4 1/2). And while all these guys have more weight, he is more athletic than all but Charles in his prime. I would be thrilled to draft Kenyon, even if he is only 6'8" & 215. At the worst he should be a Jamison-like tweener who is a superior defender and shotblocker, which is way worth a top 3 pick, and a steal at 5-7. If he is a legit 6' 9" though, no way he is around at the 3rd pick.
I guess as far as I'm concerned, size IS 'talent' at least in the NBA vernacular, where a player's quickness is considered 'talent'. So somebody like Rodney Rogers would have a top 3 pick if he were 6'11", because he would have had no weaknesses. But at 6'7" when he matches up with Chris Weber he is unable to defend effectively. And how 'talented' do you think Kevin Garnett would be if he were 6'3"? Most of the guys on your list drop from higher positions mostly because they are too short.
