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Morey said peak CP3 is the best PG of all time

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by KiwiRoxFan, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. Clown Baby

    Clown Baby Member

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    The guys using advanced stats to support CP3...

    You do realize the same stats consider KG > Hakeem, right?
     
  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Not really, because a lot of those stats are advanced plus/minus stats (like rapm) that are not available for Hakeem's era.

    As far as stuff like win shares (which Garnett isn't even that great at), I doubt Morey uses that.
     
  3. Clown Baby

    Clown Baby Member

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    That means we wouldn't have Magic's data either.
     
  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Tastemaker
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    He made that comment before Lonzo was in the league, though. NEXT.
     
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  5. Snow Villiers

    Snow Villiers Member

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    Yes
     
  6. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    That's right, we don't. I think Magic is usually considered the best
     
  7. rockbox

    rockbox Contributing Member

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    Magic was the best player of all time. He made everyone around him better and caused all kinds of match-up problems. Just watch the finals during his rookie season. It was sick what he did as a 19 year old.

    42 points 15 rebounds 7 assists without Kareem.

     
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  8. Sydeffect

    Sydeffect Member

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    CP3 before his injury with the Hornets was incredible. I still have nightmares about him and David West


    With that said CP3 at his peak might be the most complete PG, but Magic was the most dominant
     
  9. KiwiRoxFan

    KiwiRoxFan Member

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    I'd like to keep the discussion around CP3 since this is in the game action section but its hard to resist! I wouldn't be surprised if Morey "favoritely interpreted" the question for Olajuwon, by ruling both KG and Duncan as PFs, not Cs. He could have also eliminated Shaq by reasoning that hack-a-Shaq would completely negate the offensive benefits of the team.

    Surprising Morey picked Duncan over KG though. Theres no reason for him to be dishonest here so I think he truly believes it. For what its worth, KG has THE HIGHEST rapm of the statistical era, bar none (a measure based on +/-, accounting for other players on the court's +/- with bounding). LeBron at #2, Duncan at #3, and then CP3 coming in at #4.

    Of course, the Chuckwagon comes in as a top 10 center all time based on RAPM, lol
     
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  10. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Yeah, and I'm mainly referring to passing ability against the top defenses. Magic's vision is superior to any 6' PG, and the improved angle of passing, to pass over defenses much better. Larry Bird had the same advantage.

    Being a 6'9 passer like Bird and Magic is particularly helpful in close quarters.
     
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  11. amaru

    amaru Member

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    I don’t really care. Just glad he’s finally playing on the team. I still can’t believe it. I thought for sure he was SAS bound.

    Good times.
     
  12. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة
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  13. Mr. Space City

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    LOL
     
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  14. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    That doesn't really hold true in the '80s, and there were 8 less teams, too, meaning the league was 120 players less diluted. It certainly does not hold true in the NBA Finals of that era. The Lakers, the Celtics, the Fo Fo Fo Sixers and the Bad Boys were NOT smaller and weaker than the teams winning now. It was NOT easy to win 5 rings back then.

    Your argument is fine for comparing regular season stats between eras, but the Playoffs then isn't that difference you claim in the 80s or 90s.

    And ppl who witnessed Magic are trying to impress upon others that stats is not the true picture here. He was a Leader among Leaders. His magic to lead his teams and get them to play at peak is immeasurable. He'd be the best PG in this era, too. He would have perfected his set-shot three pointer much earlier in his career. Or even moreso than Ben Simmons, it wouldn't be that huge of an issue because he was an absolutley phenomenal finisher in the paint. He was sick.
     
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  15. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    I don't think I've ever seen someone put Garnett over Duncan. Garnett got worse in the playoffs
     
  16. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member

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    This is perhaps the worst post I have ever read on Clutchfans.

    If you as a basketball fan do not understand the greatness of Magic Johnson, you simply can't hear Jimi, and you never will.

    Magic and Larry both could have put up colossal numbers If they really wanted to. Those guys could have led the league in Points, Assists or Rebounds whenever they felt like it. If you needed 20 rebounds, Magic could grab you 20. If you needed 20 assists, Magic was your guy. 40 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists as a starting C in the NBA Finals as a Rookie? No problem, Magic has you covered.

    Magic was becoming the consensus GOAT before Michael Jordan (And NIKE), came along. As I said before, if you can't see the greatness of Magic, you do not understand this game, period.
     
  17. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
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    This is one of those "facts" Morey throws out from time to time that sound great but mean little.

    Chris Paul could conceivably be the "best PG ever" at his peak. But when did the peak happened and how long did it last? If say his peak happened 10 years ago and it lasted half of a season, then it really means nothing to us, and mean very little to the larger discussion about the best PG ever.

    Think about it. Jeremy Lin's peak was pretty awesome too. (And I am NOT comparing him to Chris Paul. Just a counter example to show how little the fact means.)
     
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  18. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member

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    Say what? In Minnesota he was bringing the ball up at PG at times in 4th quarters in the playoffs. And defending all 5 guys at once on a fairly scrubby Minny team outside of an always gimpy SamIAm. It was a gawdamn miracle of science that KG was able to drag those sorry teams as far as he did.

    25 years old - 24 points, 19 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals and 2 blocks Playoff AVERAGE.
    26 years old - 27 points, 16 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals and 2 blocks Playoff AVERAGE.
    27 years old - 24 points, 15 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steals and 2 blocks Playoff AVERAGE.

    No one that actually watched KG in his prime in the playoffs can tell me that he got worse in the playoffs. He did things that Duncan could only do in his dreams. Literally the only player I have ever seen that could TRULY shut down all 5 positions. Seems revisionist history is in effect, or people just remembering old ass Boston KG, which is similar to remembering old ass Laker Wilt Chamberlain.

    When he was 23 years old, KG averaged 19 points, 11 rebounds and 9 assists A GAME in the playoffs, with 2.8 turnovers. 9 assists and 2.8 turnovers, think about how ridiculous that is for everything else he is doing. It's truly insane.
     
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  19. KiwiRoxFan

    KiwiRoxFan Member

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    Yea, the more I think about it the more it seems that answering this question is largely based on how you interpret it. Not only for considering when their peak is. Is Morey considering fit? Because if so, you are limited to Magic's '89-90 year only as this is the year he made 3s. And given the need of spacing on this team, a 3pt shooting pg is basically far more important than anything else. While Magic shot 3s at 39% that year, he did not shoot them prolifically and I'm not sure how quick his release was. Of course this is more indicative of the era Magic played in than anything else. Is Morey considering transporting all players to the modern era to play on this hypothetical team?

    All of these interpretations make a difference to who you pick in the end. But one thing I will add is that Chris Paul is actually an excellent defender despite his height. Not fair to just say he has trouble with bigger pgs when he does so much more - stealing inbound passes, drawing fouls at a prolific rate, 50/50 balls, etc.
     
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  20. Jake Tower

    Jake Tower Member

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    I like Paul, but good to see posters laying down the facts regarding Magic.
     
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