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More than 6 in 10 Americans feel better off last 3 years: #MAGA

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Rocketman1981, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    And you think the Democratic party isn't? ????
     
  2. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    Of course they don't. As I said, it's all politics, and both core groups aren't going to see it from their perspective. It's only the middle that matters, and they tired of it quite a while ago, I think.

    They're tired of the circus, and tired of government not focusing on things that matter to them. Trump has a much better story there, btw.

    Just as I said, the entire case was built on supposition, with NO EVIDENCE AT ALL offered to prove the supposition. If you have a court case that depends completely on motive, and you have NO EVIDENCE AT ALL on motive, it is quite likely to get thrown out.
     
  3. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    I think it had somewhat ran its course, and many of them were working class people who took to Trump for different reasons. There were people talking about this early in Trump's campaign, about how he had basically usurped the tea party movement and made it something else.

    For me, pre tea party deficit hawk...I've pretty much given up. So, I'm more concerned now about what they spend the deficit on. Putting it back in my back is preferable to the government keeping it. Spending on things that help the economy is preferred to spending on things that don't. etc etc.
     
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  4. foh

    foh Member

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    "Out of 100 senators, zero believe you on the argument there is no quid pro quo," Cruz said he told the defense counsel.

    So either senators are ok with a supposition or there WAS evidence. In either case, this was no court trial and given that the DEM's case proved one of the main accusations (quid pro quo) without a residue of a doubt, then all your shouting about evidence is a mute point.

    And given that GOP said this was NOT impeachable, I consider them way more rotten than democrats. I'm convinced that a democratic president would've be convicted because democrats still hold laws/morality as something of value (of which there are good recent examples). Yes, that includes Clinton's entrapment case that his impeachment was. Clinton didn't collude with foreign governments to get himself elected. He was trying to save his marriage. Something that Trump should've been impeached on too as far as I'm concerned for breaking campaign law when he quietly paid off all his strippers through lawyers that later got imprisoned for it.
     
    #64 foh, Feb 16, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
    rocketsjudoka and fchowd0311 like this.
  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Help the economy in what way? Like help it prolong the fueling of economic growth through consumer debt that leads to our boom and bust cycles, or help the economy in a way that grows based on an increase in disposable income where spending habits are changed based on the increase?
     
  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    "No evidence" is an absurd position to take honestly that de-legitimizes your credibility. I already posted earlier in the month about the clear evidence of Trump's motive so I'll guess I'll just regurgitate the same points:

    If Donald Trump was looking to find justice he wouldn't send a TV pundit with obvious political bias and with no affiliation with the federal government to hunt for dirt.

    He would use legal channels like the DOJ and the FBI who have career apolitical prosectors whos allegence lies with the US government and not Trump specifically to do an initial investigation to see if there is merit and those entities would request search warrents for documentation and call logs between Hunter and Joe that would be approved by a neutral arbiter which would be a federal judge.

    When seeking genuine justice, the process must have a part in the machine where there is a neutral arbiter. Trump's actions to hunt for dirt on Biden had no such part. In a legal process, the administration would have the DOJ request warrants to neutral judges to start a genuine investigation. Trump didn't want a neutral arbiter because he was never genuinely trying to find justice. He was trying to find a political narrative to sell for personal political gain and extorted a foreign country by using the powers of the presidency. He used the powers of the presidency to dictate foreign policy for personal interests. Hence, Impeachable.

    Using Gulliani instead of official channels says enough regarding Trump's intent and motivations.

    What Trump did would be equivalent of Obama sending Bill Maher to Mexico to find dirt on Romeny right before an election and then using Bill Maher's "investigation" to dictate foreign policy on Mexico to pressure them into abiding by Bill Maher's demands.

    What you are essentially desiring here is a banana republic form of government where the autocratic leader uses political allies to "investigate" opponents rather than use government institutions that have a neutral process to investigate


    Again, if the GOP truly cared about evidence, Rudy G would testify under oath and have all his communications searched through legal warrants.

    Edit: Another point I want to add is you are mistakenly treating this like a tradional criminal trial. An impeachment trial isn't a common law criminal trial. It's evident in the fact that in a criminal trial, jurors don't party and boast with the defendant when they are aquitted. They are supposed to be impartial. Entire cases have been dropped just because of a percieved impartial jury. Also, in a criminal trial, the punishment is often removing the basic human right of freedom by prison sentences. The high bar of "beyond a reasonable doubt" is required because of the high stakes nature of the punishment here. In an impeachment trial, the stakes are removal from a privilege position of being president. There is no basic human right to be president.
     
    #66 fchowd0311, Feb 16, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    Good post.

    In the words of Republican Senator Lamar Alexander the House Managers overwhelmingly proved their case. In the words of Republican Senator Marco Rubio impeachable acts were committed. A majority of senators agreed that the case was proven. That they didn't vote for removal had to do with other motives not that the case wasn't proven. They just didn't agree on the punishment.

    Also in the Bill Clinton impeachment all of the senators agreed that Clinton had done something wrong too. It was also a case of not agreeing on the punishment. In both cases impeachment wasn't an exoneration.
     
  8. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    Definitely the lesser of two evils.
     
  9. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Not even close. I’m not sure how it’s even an argument at this point. The entire existence of Trumplican policy is selfish grievance governance. Being corrupt is kind of the entire point.

    The biggest “accomplishment” of the Trump admin is stacking the courts to manipulate our laws to the benefit of the minority. Yet the biggest complaint of the Democrats is they are socialists creating a nanny state where taxes go through the roof to help out poor people.

    Of course corruption is bi partisan because of the cancer let loose after citizens united but from a policy perspective it’s just not even close. I mean your torch bearer is Donald freaking Trump. There’s nothing more to say beyond that.
     
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