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Moochie and Cato are only clogs in the Rockets drain and.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by JBIIRockets, Mar 31, 2003.

  1. JBIIRockets

    JBIIRockets Contributing Member

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    These two are like the fat that builds up in people's arteries.

    Part of the Rockets goal of once again being a contender, is to filter out the crappy or uncaring role players this team currently has.

    Before the Rockets became good in 93-94, they did a great job in the offseasons to gid rid of the awful supporting cast players and replace them with role players who were more well-rounded, and bought into the team concept thanks to the stressings by Rudy T.

    An example would be getting rid of Buck Johnson and Sleepy Floyd and Winston Garland (although the latter twpo were on the team in 92-93). I especially hated sleepy floyd's game, becuase (especially during the 91-92 and 92-93 seasons) he flat out sucked, he was slow. and was terrible on the defensive end.

    I was not a fan of Buck Johnson either mainly because of his shot selection. How many times did he shoot "just inside the 3 point line." I mean, he was king of the 23 foot shot, not 23.9. He also wasn't a good all-around player either.

    Hakeem was an awesome player back then, but the Rockets played like crap because their role players were crap.

    Which brings us to today's Rockets. You have a great player in Yao Ming, who exploded tonight by scoring 14 points in the 1st qtr, including the first 10 or 12. Yao showed tonight that he will be a superstar when he is aggresive. You have Steve Francis, who can be a headache at times, but he is a great player

    The problem is Yao and Steve are facing the same problem Hakeem the Dream had to deal with from 88 to 92, dealing with the crappy role players on this current ballclub! These role players either suck or have a bad attitude or both.

    Here are in my opinion the quality role players on the Rockets

    Mo Taylor (clutch performer, can shoot and post up, clogs up the lane)
    Juaquin Hawkins (good defender, perimeter shooter when the Rockets have ball movement)
    Eddie Griffin (good shot blocker, and simply because he deserves more time to develop)

    The two player who are borderline are James Posey (good defender, good FT shooter, good slasher, but needs to work on his perimeter game big time. small forwards must be able to shoot in the Rockets offense. )



    Here are the crappy role players the Rockets need to use Drano on to clean out this drain of inconsistency.

    Cuttino Mobley (terrible passer, even worse shot selection, not a good defender)
    Glen Rice (just a perimeter threat, baaad defender)
    Moochie Norris (if you can't shoot, make layups ot FTs, you dont need to be in thr NBA)
    Kelvin Cato (horrible shot selection, can't make FTs, and still a bad attitude, he does not care about the Rockets success in my opinion no matter what he does aginst the Denvers and Memphis's)
    Terrence Morris (no desire, he is another that does not care, he has no talent)

    These five role players are not helping the Rockets cause. If the Rockets are going to mix things up in the offseason, it starts with getting rid of these roadblocks to Rocket development.
     
  2. BmwM3

    BmwM3 Contributing Member

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    I agree with you on Moochie, but not with Cato. Moochie flat out sucks now, i don't know what happen to his game.
     
  3. hikanoo49

    hikanoo49 Member

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    Great post!!! I agree most of what you had to say except the Eddie Griffin part. The guy may have potential but as of right now, he has shown me zilch that he has the capabilities to become a good role player.



    -terrible passer
    -moves poorly without the ball
    -doesnt set screens
    -cant defend PFs
    -gambles on D
    -terrible shooter

    Here is my wish list.


    Yao
    Brian Grant
    Matt Harpring
    Steve Francis
    Eric Snow

    Bench
    Mo Tay
    Cato
    Cat

    Also, Cato has shown that he can be a great role player for rebounding and defense.
     
  4. CriscoKidd

    CriscoKidd Member

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    I think the team needs a little retooling as well.

    The backcourt should be broken up imo, if at all possible.

    Mooch should be shipped out or glued to the IR, I don't care.

    Cato has played good this year i think, but has his bench play really helped us win more games? He is good trade bait, and it shouldn't be too hard to find a c to play 15 mpg or hopefully less.

    Posey should be jettisoned. Or settle for bench material play and/or contract.

    The pieces don't fit right now imo, and time wont smooth the edges.
     
  5. JBIIRockets

    JBIIRockets Contributing Member

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    I can under why people would disagree with me on Cato since he is a decent rebounder and a shot blocker.

    But dude needs more discipline. He does not know his limitations. He should NEVER, and I mean never shoot a fadeaway perimeter jumpshot as he did in the second quarter of the game at New Jersey with the Rockets down 29-23. When he decided to shoot that shot I was angered big-time.

    If he cared about the Rockets goal of making the playoffs he would not resort to take a perimeter shot or two per game.

    Part of it is Larry Smith's fault for playing him in stretches that I feel are too long.
     
  6. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    I have to disagree. The Rockets became good when Hakeem learned how to get his teammates involved. Once he learned how to do that, it was amazing how much better he made his teammates. The role players still weren't anything special. What have Kenny Smith, Vernon Maxwell, and Otis Thorpe done since they left? Only Cassell and Horry have gone on to do good things after leaving, and how much experience did they have.

    Right now, Steve does not make his teammates better. Matt Jackson was right when he said on the post-game show that his numbers were deceiving tonight. When he is dribbling around playing iso- ball, he will get his stats, but the team will lose.
     
  7. BmwM3

    BmwM3 Contributing Member

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    True.....he needs to learn his limitations.
     
  8. JBIIRockets

    JBIIRockets Contributing Member

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    great point Mr Clutch. Reading this post about Francis makes me want to group him with the role players in this team rather than with Yao Ming.

    This is where Yao Ming shows, IMO, that he is the most important player on the team.

    Yao Ming, even though at 22, is already an unselfish player who makes his teammates better.

    As good as Kobe is, Shaq is the biggest reason the Lakers win championships. Kobe clearly plays Robin to Shaq's Batman. Francis will have to do the same thing if the Rockets are truly going to become a contender. Francis is going to have to realize that Yao Ming is the man on this ballclub. ( I think DaDakota made this point like 2 months ago.)

    ON EVERY offensive possession Francis should always make Yao Ming post up in the low left block. Every damn time. It's called milking the situation.

    If Yao Ming struggles in the first quarter like he did at home against Denver, SO WHAT! Continue feeding him the ball anyway. Eventually Yao will find his rhythm, he HAS that good a touch.

    Yao should get 30 shots a game, not the current 10. And it's up to Francis and the other role players to put their personal accolades aside for the team.

    Suddenly I am grouping Francis with the role players now. And with the amount of times Francis lost the ball on the dribble against the Nets tonight, he played like the crappy role players.
     
  9. acejeff5

    acejeff5 Member

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    stupid , cato is good
     
  10. Rocket104

    Rocket104 Contributing Member

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    Hey JB - nice. I usually like your posts... I think. :p

    Now... my thoughts:
    Hawkins - good, but not great shooter; he seems to fit the role of a Scottie Brooks or Mark Madsen; he's not overwhelming with talent, but his hard work and scrappiness could mean he gets minutes and produces, depending on the matchup. He's definitely a guy I think we should keep around for the minimum.

    Moochie - I've been saying that about this fool since he first showed up. Even when he was hitting game-winners. He's trash. Release him.

    Cato - Surprisingly, I think he's actually done a good job this year. If it weren't for his contract, it seems like he'd be an ideal backup center for Yao. He's a little different, still aggressive on the boards, and he's been pretty good about not getting stupid fouls this year.

    Glen Rice - He's a wildcard. He's the only legitimate 3-point shooter on the team, and he's been good over a stretch now. However, he's no longer on the floor at the same time as Yao now (and why in the world would you *not* put a 3-point shooter on the same SIDE of the floor as your iso post-up man anyway?), and he definitely leaves a lot to be desired on the defensive end. BUT, he's been saying smart-sounding veteran things to the media, filling the role expected of him. I only hope he does the same in the locker room and that people listen.

    Of course, you're right - if the makeup of the team changes, Glen is expendable. Absolutely.

    Like I said, good post.
     
  11. Newgirl

    Newgirl Member

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    They are all bad role players IMO in the sense that they don't understand their roles and play their roles well. They all want to be the stars and do things they couldn't do. Great role players know their limitations. You never ever saw Dennis Rodman attempting a fadeaway jumper nor Eric Snow trying to take over a game.
     
  12. BmwM3

    BmwM3 Contributing Member

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    I do remember Dennis shooting threes from time to time.
     
  13. count_dough-ku

    count_dough-ku Contributing Member

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    I foresee this team making a lot of changes in the offseason, playoffs or not:

    Cuttino is gone. Whether that means Steve stays at PG or moves to the 2 remains to be seen, but I think it's obvious to everyone including Cat himself that his days here are numbered.

    Glen Rice is a prime candidate to be moved, if not during the offseason then before next year's All-Star break. His expiring contract is too good to pass up for teams looking to clear cap room. Hopefully, the Rockets can land a decent role player or two by moving him.

    Moochie might be with the team next year(like anyone in their right frame of mind would take on his contract), but his days of backing up Steve are over. He's been a complete waste this season. Dude can't even hit more than 2/3 of his free throws(which BTW, cost them a game against the Clippers) and he's a point guard! Backcourt depth is gonna be a major focal point this offseason, and you know damn well they'll be looking for quality backups at both guard positions.

    Here's something I know a lot of people will disagree with me about and I don't even know if the Rockets organization has considered it, but I'd like to see them trade Cato. Not because he's a bad player, mind you. If anything, he's been the biggest surprise for the Rockets this season outside of Yao. He's a quality backup who's a monster on the boards and a lot of teams in the Leastern Conference could use a guy like him. Take advantage of this opportunity and move the guy while his stock is still relatively high. Like Rice, he could land the Rockets some quality depth at key positions. Don't tell me no one will take on his contract. If an alcoholic, overweight, past-his-prime Vin Baker can be moved, someone will take him. And as for Yao no longer having a decent backup center, who cares? Yao theoretically should be putting in 35-40 minutes a night for the team come next season, so why would you wanna pay a backup center 6-7 mil a year for 8-13 minutes of play? The Rockets won two titles without a decent backup for Dream(unless Earl Cureton and Grandpa Jones qualify).

    Sit Eddie down and tell him it's put up or shut up time. I'm sick and tired of hearing the "he's only 20" argument. Dude has shown zero improvement over last season, so obviously there's more to his lackluster play than just youth. I do feel coaching(or lack thereof) has been a problem. No one's teaching this guy how to be an effective big man. Rudy and Co. seem way too content to let him become another Robert Horry, and no offense, but you don't trade 3 first-rounders(including Richard Jefferson) for Robert Friggin Horry! They desperately need a veteran assistant coach who can teach guys like Eddie and Yao, kinda like what Carroll Dawson used to do in the early to mid-90's. I still maintain that Eddie is a bad fit for the team, no matter how great he eventually becomes. They need a bruiser type of four. Someone who plays hard nosed defense and can knock down an 18-footer. An Otis Thorpe or Charles Oakley. But I'm willing to give Eddie one more year to see if he can develop beyond the 6'10" 3-point brick artist he currently is.

    I don't see any coaching change barring Rudy retiring due to health concerns which is a shame cuz this is where the Rockets need the most help. Rudy is a great guy and has done a lot for this organization and city, but he's not the right fit for this team. It pains me to see what Hubie Brown has been able to do with a former headcase and showboater like Jason Williams in half a season, and meanwhile Steve Francis is still dribbling into 4 defenders in the paint and couldn't run a fastbreak to save his life.


    Anyway, enough of my ranting. My point is these are all problems that need to be resolved by the Rockets between now and no later than next year's All-Star break. If they're serious about contending for a title in a few years and filling that new arena the taxpayers in Houston have blessed them with, they won't stick with the status quo and hope and pray that time will cure all ills, cuz it won't.
     
  14. Yetti

    Yetti Contributing Member

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    JBII Rockets:- I was making this point prior to the season! I got nothing but insults for my prediction of how the future Rockets must be.
     
  15. bigballerj

    bigballerj Member

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    I say: LETS HAVE A FIRE SALE!!!

    EVERYBODY IS FAIR GAME TO GET TRADED, except Yao

    Rebuild the team around Yao. This is the only way the Rox can become a contender within 2-3 years.
     
  16. a la rockets

    a la rockets Contributing Member

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    I disagree with u, JBIIRockets, concerning Cato and Morris(yes TMo!).
    Cato is a decent rebonder and shot-blocker, when he's motivated!And TMo can do a whole lot of different things fairly well, thus being a good role player!




    ALA
     
  17. Parlett316

    Parlett316 Contributing Member

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    Yeah, when the Bulls were up by 20 in trash time, Rodman would get the green light to jack up threes.
     
  18. JBIIRockets

    JBIIRockets Contributing Member

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    Would you care to actually do some THINKING and tell me what T-Mo does well??

    If you think T-Mo is the answer, tell me why?

    It's called evidence, look into it.

    As for Cato, you say "when he's motivated." Good players are motivated all the time. You are further enhancing my point as to why he is on my crappy role player list.
     
  19. a la rockets

    a la rockets Contributing Member

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    My bad, I thought this was a Rockets forum, not a get insulted while giving ur opinion forum!

    I'm not saying he's the answer, but he could be a good role player.

    I personaly thought he was motivated in the last few games. Thus why I think he's found his spot in the rotation.
    Please,don't judge players(Cato) on 1 game you saw where they didn't play that well.I use to be one of the first to dish him,but now he seems to have found the intensity to be good coming off the bench.
     
  20. kidrock8

    kidrock8 Member

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    Nice post. Pretty much says what I want to say.

    Especially the comment on Francis, a good PG only if you care about stats over wins.

    The team needs to bring in vets who want to win. We have too many young guys who take being in the NBA for granted. We need hungry players. Someone close to Mario Elie.

    We also are severely lacking toughness throughout the roster. I mean nasty guys who don't take $hit from anyone, and plays their balls off. Do we have ANY players who strike the fear of opponents?

    I'd like to see EG or Yao actually get a legitimate big man foul the next time a PG drives to the lane. Quit with this ticky-tacky reaching in foul while the opponent is going to the lane for 2 and the foul.

    DRILL THE GUY ON HIS ASS.

    Respect is earned, not given. As well as successs. Unfortunately, the Rockets don't see that.

    Rockets need to play with a chip on their shoulder.
     
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