I've noticed that Yao likes to stick that free arm out on the baseline spin move. TECHNICALLY, this is supposed to be called a foul, but I think players generally get the benefit of the doubt, just as long as they're not wrapping their free arm around opposing defenders. Did Hakeem used to stick out his arm like that? It's been so long since he had a good baseline move, I can't remember. Also, if you look closely, you'll notice that when Yao is posting up on the left block, he pivots with his RIGHT foot, and not his left foot. Most players pivot with the left foot, because it gives them more room between the defender and the ball, allowing them to protect the ball better. Being 7'5" and having long arms, though, Ming doesn't have this problem. By pivoting with his right foot, it allows him an easier and quicker spin to the baseline. It may not seem that significant, but still pretty smart...ah, the little things...
Train, Every time he does that Ive noticed it too. He completely wipes out his man with his off arm. The funny thing is, hes even more blatant about it than Hakeem ever was (and Hakeem once in a blue moon would get called on that). Also, Hakeem absolutely did it, but it was sneaky. He didnt stick his arm straight out as not to make it obvious. Hakeem's technique was to hook his man with the backside of his off elbow. Yao stretches his arm out and uses his forearm to ward his man off. Someone posted a picture from the Spurs game with an even better example. Ive yet to see them call Yao for an O on that move. Im sure he will sooner or later. Maybe after all, Yao is indeed getting veteran calls like Cuban said.
He did it in the Spurs game? I was about to say that the Spurs game was the first time I didn't see him attempt the baseline spin move, and I was wondering why. Perhaps I missed it.
I could be wrong on that. I went back and looked for the picture and couldnt find it. Perhaps it was not SA and it was one of our other games. You may be right. I dont remember seeing Yao do that move in that game either. However, the picture was of Yao after he already made the spin (pic showed the back of his jersey and was taken from the corner) and you could clearly see his right arm fully extended and wiping out his man. This may have been the picture I was thinking off (not the spin move though ...just him using is off arm to keep his man at bay):
Quoted by A-train Hakeem did last year ( Toronto) when he played against Dallas. It was against Shawn Bradley, and after he went around him he went up with a monstrous slam. Don Nelson was so mad he yank Bradley out the game. This wasn't the last one he did yet it was the most memorable one. You would remember if you watched him play all the games he played last year. His stats weren't incredible, but he just did what the coach ask him to do.
A-Train, I'm not visualizing the pivot thing you are talking about. Pivoting clockwise with the right foot protects the ball if you use a left dribble. Pivoting counterclockwise with the left foot protects the ball if you use a right dribble. For instance, in your picture, he definitely is pivoting clockwise with his right foot and that ball is indeed protected in his left arm. I guess you are talking about having to put it back into your right hand to shoot. Well, when the spin gives you room, you have options: you can go reverse and use the rim to shield the ball; you can just do a two-handed slam like Shaq; and you can listen to Carrol Dawson and learn a left handed baby shot like Hakeem and Kenny. Have we seen Yao shoot a left-hander, yet?? I first noticed the arm hook thing on the spin move watching Barkley as a rookie. I'm sure someone did that before him, but I tend to believe Barkley was a pioneer on popularizing it. Barkley used to do it totally legally in his younger days, though. His spin was soooo fast and tight against a PF defender, that he could actually get his butt to shield the defender so that his arms could remain in legal distance from his body.
Yao has good footwork for a big man, and he is just now starting to learn the NBA game. Can you imagine his footwork a couple of years from now!
I remember seeing Ming shoot a bit of a baby left hook in the Dallas game. It wasn't really off of a post up move, but rather an offensive rebound, as I recall. But he is capable of doing it.
Actually, he is pivoting with the correct foot. In that situation, you are supposed to pivot with the right foot. The left foot does not make sense to pivot with.
It's easier if you try it yourself. Stand up (hopefully, you at least have a cubicle so you don't look like a total doofus) and stand with the textbook feet slightly wider than shoulder length apart post up stance. Imagine your defender on your left side and the ball in your right hand. If you pivot with the left foot, you can extend the right foot out about two feet, thus moving your right hand with it, making it easier to protect the ball. If you pivot with the right foot, you're pretty much limited to how far you can extend your arm, but with Yao's wingspan, this isn't a problem. When you do that baseline spine move, which Yao seems to favor, it's much easier to spin off the right foot pivot than the left foot pivot, and you're less inclined to get called for travelling.
Well, then most NBA big men don't have proper post up technique, because they usually pivot off the left foot...
A-Train, I agree with rezdawg. The proper pivot on a clockwise spin with your man directly behind you is the right foot. The left foot does not make sense; you'll be spinning into the defenders trunk. Now if you are talking a drop step, then that's different...but your title said "spin move" not the Shaq drop step. Anyhoot, I never pivot with the left foot in that situation. The right is tougher to defend, imso. If I'm classically wrong, screw it; I'm going to continue spinning like Yao is in that picture. verse, don't get me in trouble, now.
I'm not saying that pivoting off the right foot is wrong, I'm just saying that he is using correct technique, when most players use incorrect technique. Even though it is incorrect technique, using the left foot as a pivot foot just seems more natural for most players, because it's easier to create space between you and the defender. Just because something is easier, doesn't mean it's correct. It's like when somebody mispronounces the letter "a" by saying "uh" (i.e.: I was at uh friend's house). Even though saying "a" is proper English, saying "uh" is easier to do. The word "the" is also mispronounced a lot (thuh), but that's a whole different thread.
Train and HP, I think I understand the confusion here. HP is talking about a spin move from the right lower block (TV angle: the left side of the court and the block closest to the viewer). I think Train is talking about a spin move on the left lower block (TV angle: the right side of the court and the block closes to the viewer). If Yao is on the left side of the court and is posting up on the right lower block, the proper way would be to pivot on his right foot. If he didnt, hed be spinning around his man into the lane instead of along the baseline. HP is correct here (if going baseline). Although either way he spins, its still a spin move. To me, youd want to spin towards the baseline as to stay away from the rest of the defense collapsing on you in the lane. If Yao is on the right side of the court and is posting up on the left lower block, the proper way would be to pivot on his left like A-Train says (if going baseline). However, Yao almost always makes that spin move off the right block and so pivoting on his right foot would be correct in that case. Ive dont ever recall seeing him use the spin move when hes on the left lower block. However, if he did, then you are right A-Train, he would pivot on his left foot.
imo, the confusion is that I'm talking about a spin move as in the picture and the title, and A-Train is talking about a drop step.
I never once said in this thread that Yao should be pivoting off the left foot. I'm saying (for the THIRD time now??), that MOST NBA players use the left foot as the pivot foot when posting up on the left block, even though it's not proper technique. Somewhere over in China, either a smart basketball coach told Ming to pivot with the right foot, or he learned it himself...My guess is the latter... As for the left/right thing. When you say "left side" or "left block", it's ALWAYS from the perspective of looking at the basket from the top of the key, not from the base line. That is what I've been told, at least...
I don't really agree with this. In my experience watching NBA basketball, when a player is performing the spin move that Ming likes to do, 95% of the time they spin off their right foot. Are you talking about when he pivots at anytime, or just on those spin moves?
codell, I described a spin move in terms of clockwise and counterclockwise. Side of court doesn't make a difference when described that way. as an exercise in basketball terms: anyone what to compare and contrast a <b>spin move</b> (Yao's) versus a power <b>dropstep</b> (Shaq)??
Train, My apologies, I got my left and right mixed. I believe you are correct in that. So this picture, Ming started the move from the left lower block (top of key persepctive). If the player's intention is to spin towards baseline, like Yao is doing in the photo, then the proper technique would NOT be to pivot on his right foot? If he was in that position, if his intent was to go baseline, yet he spun on his left, IMO, that would be totally counter productive as he would have to go through his man, instead of around, to get to the baseline. However, again referencing the photo, if he wants to spin into the lane, then IMO, proper technique says to spin on his left, again, to go around his man.
