1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Marco Rubio: Women with Zika Should not be Allowed to have Abortions

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Aug 7, 2016.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    29,165
    Likes Received:
    3,344
    One of the frequent arguments made against the abortion is that the mother should take responsibility for her actions, having sex, but how does that apply to something like Zika where the women may not even know that she has it? Also in this case Congress, which Rubio is a member of, has been holding up funding to fight it he is putting the honus on the woman to bear the burden of dealing with microcephaly.

    This goes to something that has often troubled me about many in the anti-abortion side. While they are against abortion they do little or even make it harder to address the reasons why people have abortions. In this case Rubio and others are making it harder to deal with a disease that is shown to cause a debilitating birth defect while at the same time insisting that women need to bring fetuses with that birth defect to term.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/07/marco-rubio-zika-virus-abortions-florida

    Marco Rubio: women with Zika should not be allowed abortions
    Florida senator and former presidential candidate says he will ‘err on the side of life’ even if babies will have microcephaly

    Florida senator Marco Rubio has said women infected with the Zika virus should not be allowed to have abortions, even if their babies have microcephaly, the severe developmental disorder than can result from infection with the disease.


    Florida cleared to release genetically modified mosquitoes in Zika fight
    Read more
    “If I’m going to err, I’m going to err on the side of life,” the Republican told Politico. Rubio, who has championed Zika funding bills in the Senate, also blamed Democrats for the failure to pass such federal aid.

    According to Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) figures, Florida is the state second-worst affected by Zika, after New York, but is the only state to have infections caused by local mosquitoes. Most Zika cases in the US have been found in people who travelled to affected countries and territories.

    On Sunday, the Florida governor, Rick Scott, told NBC that despite his state having identified 16 cases of mosquito-borne Zika infections, “what we’re doing is working.”

    Scott also called for increased federal aid, in addition to the several million Barack Obama has released in existing grants. On Friday, the federal Food and Drug Administration cleared a private company to release genetically altered mosquitoes which could help the fight against Zika on an island in the Florida Keys. The project will be subject to a local referendum in November.

    Rubio ran unsuccessfully for the Republican presidential nomination and only recently decided to run for re-election rather than give up public life. During the presidential campaign, he said he was opposed to abortion in all instances, including in cases of rape or incest.

    “I understand a lot of people disagree with my view – but I believe that all human life is worthy of protection of our laws,” he said on Saturday. “And when you present it in the context of Zika or any prenatal condition, it’s a difficult question and a hard one. But if I’m going to err, I’m going to err on the side of life.”

    In the Senate, Rubio has supported the provision of funding for work against Zika. In May, after a $1.1bn funding measure he sponsored passed the Senate, he cited an estimate from the CDC director, Tom Frieden, that the lifetime cost of caring for a child born with microcephaly could reach $10m.

    “We’re going to be dealing with Zika for multiple years,” Rubio said. “Outside of the human cost is the economic cost of this. We’re going to be spending money on Zika for the foreseeable future.”

    On Saturday, he added: “Obviously, microcephaly is a terrible prenatal condition that kids are born with. And when they are, it’s a lifetime of difficulties. So I get it.

    “I’m not pretending to you that that’s an easy question you asked me. But I’m pro-life. And I’m strongly pro-life. I believe all human life should be protected by our law, irrespective of the circumstances or condition of that life.”

    Obama asked Congress for $1.9bn of funding, which was blocked in the Senate in June. House Republicans had appended unrelated provisions to the bill – involving, for instance, abortion restrictions and the Confederate flag – and Senate Democrats refused to pass it in its altered form.Rubio blamed the failure to pass any anti-Zika funding on Democrats, who have blamed Republicans for inserting such “poison pill” clauses into the relevant bill. One such clause had a measure to defund Planned Parenthood, the women’s health provider and a frequent target of anti-abortion campaigners.

    “The Planned Parenthood angle is something they basically made up to have a political reason not to pass Zika so they can come back in August and campaign on it,” Rubio said. “That’s what I mean by political volleyball. Both sides have played that game. I would have preferred the House just passed a clean funding bill and I’ll vote for that if it comes out.”

    On NBC, Scott was asked if it was now safe to travel to Wynwood, the Miami neighbourhood in which mosquito-borne Zika has been found.

    “Absolutely,” he said. “I was there on Thursday … we are doing a very good job working to get rid of the mosquitoes. Our department of health at the local level is doing a very good job. We have 16 cases – we’ve been able to reduce the area we had a concern about by 10 blocks on Friday, so we’re working on it.


    'This is why people hate Congress': politics stymies fight against Zika virus
    Read more
    “Everybody pregnant has the option for a test if they want it; we’re picking everybody up. What we’re doing is working.”

    The CDC has warned pregnant women and their partners not to travel to Wynwood, and advised those who live there to try to prevent mosquito bites, wear a condom, and be tested for infection. Couples trying to get pregnant should also avoid the area, the health officials said.

    Scott was also asked about criticism he has received over a 40% cut to the state’s mosquito control budget in 2011.

    “What we’ve done is allocate the dollars better,” he said. “We reduced some funding originally but we dramatically increased the funding over the last five, six years I’ve been in office. We have a very good mosquito board. I’ve allocated $26.2m of state funding.”

    As of Friday, Florida officials had released only $1.9m of those funds, according to documents acquired by the Miami Herald.

    “The feds need to become a partner,” Scott continued, saying he had asked Frieden “for 10,000 more Zika preparedness kits. We still need the federal government to show up. The president and Congress still need to work together. This is a national, federal issue, not just a Florida issue.”
     
  2. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    42,049
    Likes Received:
    13,901
    A metaphor for the GOP and Trump.
     
  3. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    50,810
    Likes Received:
    11,092
    If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, we need more abortions. Think of how many fewer criminals there would be if we just incentivised single mothers and poor people to kill their children. I just can't stand it when Republicans get in the way of people killing their children when it would clearly solve so many of the problems with society. The more abortions, the better.
     
  4. TheRealist137

    TheRealist137 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2009
    Messages:
    26,905
    Likes Received:
    7,294
    You know you can be for abortions without being an asshole, but you are bobbythegreat, the biggest a-hole on here.
     
  5. jayhow92

    jayhow92 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    7,125
    Likes Received:
    1,658
    Republicans gonna Republican.
     
  6. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    12,188
    Likes Received:
    6,829
    His take on abortions isn't an asshole take.

    It's a mentally ill take.
     
  7. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    50,810
    Likes Received:
    11,092
    The only difference between me and anyone else that supports abortion is that I don't delude myself into thinking that my stance is anything other than I say it is. Basically I'm just honest with what I am supporting while others aren't honest about what they are supporting.
     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    29,165
    Likes Received:
    3,344
    Actually Freakonomics had presented the same argument, that abortion has reduced crime, with some very compelling evidence.
    http://freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abortion-and-crime-who-should-you-believe/

    True Bobby is presenting with less tact.

    While there might be an argument for that abortion reduces crime a lot of that is based upon reducing the amount of unwanted pregnancies and thus children growing up in poverty and neglect. It seems like that could also be addressed by reducing reasons for there are unwanted pregnancies. As I said before I have more of a problem with people who are both against abortion but also do little or even work against addressing the reasons why there are unwanted pregnancies. In many cases the same people who say we should outlaw abortion are also arguing we should cut funding for healthcare for women and children, cut education and family leave programs, oppose sex education and even contraception.
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. London'sBurning

    London'sBurning Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    4,973
    Likes Received:
    1,146
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    13,767
    Likes Received:
    978
    I guess, the prison population doesn't even amount up to 1% of the total population; we already abort around 1:5 ratio to live births, so advocating for more based on this logic probably just amounts to eugenics.
     
  11. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    50,810
    Likes Received:
    11,092
    Not quite, the difference is that when it comes to just giving incentives for people to kill their children, it's their choice. With pretty much any form of eugenics, it's something forced on people.

    Also, I'm not saying that they are likely to become criminals due to bad genes or anything, I'm saying that the children of people who would choose to kill their children if given a financial incentive are the types of parents who would raise criminals. If you don't love your kids enough to not kill them if able to, you probably shouldn't be raising kids to begin with. Obviously it wouldn't eliminate those problems but it would certainly help.

    On top of that, it would help with poverty, there's nothing like throwing children into the mix to make poor people stay poor.

    All around it's a good thing because it's not like there is any kind of shortage of people.
     
  12. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    50,810
    Likes Received:
    11,092
    Very true, it's like how some people credit Obama for withdrawing from Iraq and bringing the troops home to die here instead of there while others blame Bush for withdrawing from Iraq leading to the expansion of ISIS.

    It all depends on how you look at it.
     
  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    25,540
    Likes Received:
    5,087
    There is no use with arguing with someone like Bobby - he can only see his perspective and is more interested in passing judgement and not in having a mature civilized discussion.
     
  14. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    50,810
    Likes Received:
    11,092
    Well there's no use in arguing with me if you aren't an intelligent and mature person, I'll agree with that. Simple minded partisans never really get far when they try to discuss things with me.
     
  15. CometsWin

    CometsWin Obsession: a persistent disturbing preoccupation
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2000
    Messages:
    25,086
    Likes Received:
    6,812
    :grin:
     
  16. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    25,540
    Likes Received:
    5,087
    Abortion = murder of children

    You do realize that kind of absolutism is the definition of simple-minded.

    I am not even a partisan. I've voted for numerous Republicans - have you ever voted for a Democrat? Love to hear when.
     
  17. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    50,810
    Likes Received:
    11,092
    I know you don't want to believe that, but abortion really is the killing (making dead) of a human life form in the early stages of their development. That obvious fact shouldn't change your views one way or the other but if it does, maybe you were supporting something for the wrong reasons. Acknowledging the obvious doesn't change the discussion at all.
     
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    46,756
    Likes Received:
    10,558
    Trump is obviously an existential threat to the republic, but a lightweight clown like Rubio (who, BTW, despite having been utterly humiliated by Trump on a personal and political level, still supports him) being anointed the "establishment choice" says many many bad things about the "establishment" and how they got rolled by Trump
     
  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    25,540
    Likes Received:
    5,087
    When does a human become a human? Please provide your supporting facts since it is so obvious.
     
  20. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    50,810
    Likes Received:
    11,092
    A human was a human since the beginning. If you took the DNA of a fetus it is human DNA suggesting that even at that point it's a human even if it's a human at a very early stage of development. Hell before it's even a fetus it has human DNA and a heartbeat.

    That's not the line of questioning that you want to go down if you are trying to argue against what I've said.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now