Luhnow/Darvish comments

Keuchel is not Darvish and 116 is not 125. Same team that said Darvish moved back pitched Keuchel 8 next start. In addition, Keuchel was throwing almost as hard in 9th as he was in 1st. Darvish had lost 1-2 mph off his fastball in last two innings.

 

What am I missing here? A GM that clearly shows some concern with high pitchcounts in April for certain players had no issue with DK pitching a complete game. They didn't hold him back or have any issues with him pitching 8 innings the next game. What does that tell you?

 

Maybe it isn't a huge difference, but hasn't Darvish had Tommy John? If I'm correct in thinking he has, then that's a huge difference between Darvish and DK. Yes, Dallas had some shoulder issues last year but that's not going to be monitored and micromanaged the same way as a pitcher who has had TJ in the past 2 years or so.

 

Not same situation. Keuchel pitched 116 pitches 5 days before versus 0. Keuchel's 8th was stressful versus Keuchel cruising. Basically, almost every condition was met for Keuchel throwing 116 pitches to be okay. The only thing throwing that many pitches did is that it made Hinch not want to do it two consecutive starts without an extra day of rest.

Holding him to less than 100 pitches (what they try to do for McCullers, though, even he with a more violent delivery has gotten to 107) versus 116 would have had the same result with hin coming out in the 8th.

Whats Astros do is more indicative of what they do about a specific player than what they say about another player on another team in a completely different scenario (multiple 100+ inning starts, more velocity).

 

Keuchel pitched on extra rest when he threw 116. He was taken out at 100 the very next start.

I don't see much wrong with either of those two circumstances.

 

99 to 116. Yep BIG difference there !1!!1!!

 

Sure... if you simply look at actual pitch counts and make all decisions on that in a vaccume, there isn't much to debate.

However, they probably tend to look not just at pitch counts, but how much duress and pressure the pitcher had to face during the game. The Indians game featured plenty of double plays and very limited on base action. kuechel never really struggled within any part of the game (no overly long innings, no constant throws to first to try and hold runners, etc.).

In the end, his extra rest probably gave him enough endurance to finish that game off. Likewise, having pitched a full game the previous start influenced when they decided to take him out on Sunday... which was also a game with very little internal struggling.

 

Generally agree. Only very minor quibble is that I'd say pitch count is only one factor and it by itself in a vacuum is not enough to pull a pitcher (except in extreme cases and rookies....116 is not extreme). The shoulder injury and it being April don't bother me as he's pitched well (results and mechanics), had been stretched out, and not over-taxed for the month.

 

Now that would be a lot of pitches.

 

Darvish pitched 113 times in the start prior to throwing 125. 113 is closer to 116.

I don't understand why you continue to make a big deal about this. Chris Sale is averaging 107 pitches per start. Dallas Keuchel is averaging 99. Trust me, they are monitoring Dallas' pitch count. They like most teams look at around 100 pitches, with the occasional 120-range thrown in.

 

You started a thread about it. 5 days after it happened. Continuing to beat a dead horse.

Nobody here has said pitch counts don't matter. You keep pretending like that people are. People are saying it isn't a big deal to throw the extra pitches on an occasional basis. Especially to garner your star pitcher a personal achievement because it makes them happy, something that matters.

 

Then what are we talking about?

Every arm is different. So is every situation.