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Luhnow and the Front office

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by The Beard, Jul 9, 2014.

  1. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Ten teams that could shake it up. Tweeps upset that I omitted <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Twins?src=hash">#Twins</a>’ Gardenhire, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BlueJays?src=hash">#BlueJays</a>’ Anthopoulos. <a href="http://t.co/sZ7T4slHCH">http://t.co/sZ7T4slHCH</a></p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/statuses/498859407951020032">August 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
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    [rQUOTEr]Astros

    Wait, what?

    In late June, Sports Illustrated proclaimed the Astros, “Your 2017 World Series Champs,” lauding the team’s collection of prospects and the strategic foresight of GM Jeff Luhnow.

    Well, since then the Astros have suffered the embarrassment of failing to sign the No. 1 pick in the amateur draft, high-school left-hander Brady Aiken. Things haven’t been much better on the field — the team has sunk to a 95-loss pace, making a fourth straight 100-loss season possible.

    Internal tension seems unavoidable. Owner Jim Crane has made no secret of his desire for the team to win more games. Nolan Ryan, appointed as an executive adviser last February, comes from an entirely different background than Luhnow — and Ryan’s son, Reid, is the Astros’ president of business operations.

    Is Luhnow in trouble? Maybe not. Does his situation bear watching? Absolutely.[/rQUOTEr]
     
  2. TimPoopura

    TimPoopura Member

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    Too lazy to write a long post, but criticism of Luhnow should always consider his budget constraints, whatever they may be. This past offseason, the FO attempted to add some talent with big signings. We pursued several guys who, in retrospect, were great targets:

    Michael Morse
    Scott Kazmir
    Jose Abreu
    Shin Soo Choo

    There are probably some others I'm missing. If we failed to sign those guys because Luhnow undervalued them, that's on him. But if we failed to sign them because the funds weren't available, that's on ownership.

    As for the draft classes, It's too early to really form a good opinion. Early returns on the 2012 class look amazing. The 2013 class hasn't been as stellar, but it has several guys who look like they have major league futures (Kemp, Gregor). It's encouraging that we're finding valuable talent after the first couple rounds.
     
  3. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

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    That is what you would call random speculation with no actual evidence to support it, nothing more.

    If we simply wanted to win more games we certainly could, that obviously wasn't the mandate to Luhnow.
     
  4. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    IOW, sports journalism these days.
     
  5. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Looks like Matt Jackson called him out on it.

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal">@Ken_Rosenthal</a> intimating that Nolan Ryan could take over for Jeff Luhnow after this season. Seems like a PR Move. <a href="http://t.co/tOS3kJHXGI">http://t.co/tOS3kJHXGI</a></p>&mdash; Matt Jackson (@MJ4Sports) <a href="https://twitter.com/MJ4Sports/statuses/498820416631492608">August 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/MJ4Sports">@MJ4Sports</a> I am not intimating that.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/statuses/498820476387733504">August 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal">@Ken_Rosenthal</a> Why mention that Jeff Luhnow could be removed and mention Nolan Ryan if you don't think it could happen?</p>&mdash; Matt Jackson (@MJ4Sports) <a href="https://twitter.com/MJ4Sports/statuses/498821283644067840">August 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/MJ4Sports">@MJ4Sports</a> I am not drawing that direct correlation. You are reading something into it that isn’t there.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/statuses/498821422291361792">August 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal">@Ken_Rosenthal</a> Fair enough, then I don't know why put him in an article titled&quot; Who'll be sent packing as the season hits the home stretch?&quot;</p>&mdash; Matt Jackson (@MJ4Sports) <a href="https://twitter.com/MJ4Sports/statuses/498822288863555586">August 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/KrisMcGrew">@KrisMcGrew</a> Not that hard to figure out. Combination of both.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/statuses/498832298557841409">August 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
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  6. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Can't believe the Royals haven't made the playoffs in almost 30 years... and if they do it this year, its likely only with assistance from a 2nd WC spot.

    Its still too preliminary to start questioning Luhnow's job security right now... but if they're in this same position at this point next season, I think its fair game to discuss what their realistic time frame for contention will be.

    I think you at least have to allow him to promote Correa... who if he pans out, could be that one franchise player that every GM dreams of being able to have drafted, developed, and promoted.
     
  7. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Give him more salary to work with first
     
  8. Fyreball

    Fyreball Contributing Member

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    It would be totally unfair to judge Luhnow's body of work without a single off-season where he was allowed to go and try and get a big fish in free agency. The Astros have yet to be buyers since he's been here, so we haven't even had a chance to really see his skills as a GM.
     
  9. RockFanFirst

    RockFanFirst Member

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    True. Sad that most people equate "not spending" on FAs when they'll do little to help with "cheap ownership". I'm all for spending when the time is right to spend rather than spending just to spend.
     
  10. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Oh they spent this past offseason. :)

    Scott Feldman, RHP: Three years, $30MM.
    Chad Qualls, RHP: Two years, $6MMM.
    Jesse Crain, RHP: One year, $3.25MM.
    Matt Albers, RHP: One year, $2.45MM with a $3MM club option ($200K buyout).
    Jerome Williams, RHP: One year, $2.1MM.
    Total: $43.8MM

    They went after Tanaka, Abreu, and Choo.
     
  11. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    I think the argument is that he wasn't allowed to truly go after them. Sure, they made bids and leaked PR statements afterward that they came "close", but the vibe I got was that they weren't very aggressive or confident from the outset, and I'd imagine that falls on Crane.

    I could be wrong, but I think Luhnow knew going in that he didn't have a realistic shot at any of those guys. With an improved team and (hopefully) a stable TV deal, Crane definitely owes it to Jeff to let him be more aggressive this winter.
     
  12. Fyreball

    Fyreball Contributing Member

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    Did they really?? Sure, it was a dog and pony show to submit a bid, but did any of us actually think the Astros (and Crane specifically) WANTED to land any of those guys?? Like many have said before, THIS coming off-season is going to be one I think we as fans should watch with interest. It will be very telling as to where the Astros feel they are in terms of their development.
     
  13. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Well I sure hope they wanted a guy they offered $100+ mil on and another $50-60 million. :)

    Of course getting any of them, somewhere between slim and none.

    I guess like everything else, wait and see, wait and see.

    [​IMG]
     
    #53 J.R., Aug 11, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2014
  14. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    You don't throw around that kind of money as a PR move and not knowing what the other bids are. Also, weren't we pretty close on Abreu? Knowing how Houston fans are, his best move would've been to not even bid if they didn't really want them because he should've known this would be their general reaction had they not landed them.
     
  15. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    I think it's a little bit of both. To imply they didn't WANT to land those guys is definitely absurd. But at the same time, the "not particularly optimistic" lines they fed to McTaggart and other beat guys going into those negotiations tells me they weren't that aggressive. They'd have taken those players if they had gotten a good deal, but it wasn't a huge priority. The only part I'm implying was PR were the after the fact leaks of how close they came. I don't think it was the point of their interest at all -- just a side benefit they attempted to try and use to quiet the "Crane is cheap!" crowd.

    That's what I think changes this offseason. If you want a big boy like those, you have to go in guns blazing and overpay a bit on the open market (especially if you're the Astros), and I don't think Crane gave Jeff that freedom a year ago. This offseason, I think it happens -- especially if the TV deal is resolved in October.
     
  16. Joshfast

    Joshfast "We're all gonna die" - Billy Sole
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    I'd buy that a wear it to the game :grin:
     
  17. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    I think the only thing we can truly judge Luhnow on at this point is te drafts and trades. His ability to build a major league roster will be seen when crane allows the purse strings to be loosened (if he in fact ever does. If the TV deal gets done maybe we will truly find out)

    My biggest worry about attracting free agents when the time comes, is the perception our front office has obtained (fairly or not). Money talks of course

    I'm not a huge fan of Luhnow at this point but the major league roster, at this point, isn't all on him
     
  18. moonnumack

    moonnumack Contributing Member

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    I don't think those were PR moves. If they were looking for publicity, they would have "bid" on Cano or someone with a big name. How many casual fans had any idea who Abreu or Choo even were? Tanaka got some headlines, but still, the value of all 3 of those guys could only be appreciated by serious baseball fans.
    I do think that the funds to go after those players were limited by ownership. Either way, it would take a major overpay to get any of those guys to join a historically bad team with no prospects to win in the near future. That wouldn't been smart either.
     
  19. Buck Turgidson

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    Going into next year, can you have a functional lineup with 2 guys - Altuve & Fowler - that do not strike out 120+ times a year?

    Springer
    Singleton
    Carter
    Castro
    Dominguez
    Marisnick

    + the SS

    It's hard to sustain any sort of rally or manufacture a run here and there with that many empty swings
     
  20. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    I really hope they were right to give up on Cosart... He threw 7 shutout innings against the cardinals tonight.
     

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