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[Lies A-Plenty] Trump's 2019 SOTU

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by CometsWin, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    "Fact-checking subjective political assertions: The New York Times provided a masterclass in bad faith fact-checking by taking political contentions offered by the president and subjecting them to an impartially test of accuracy. In his speech, Trump called the illegal border crossing 'an urgent national crisis.' The New York Times says “this is false.” Why? Because illegal border crossing have been declining for two decades, they say. Customs and Border Protection agents, they go on to explain, were arresting around 50,000 people trying to illegally cross the southwestern border each of the last three months, which is only half of the arrests they were making at comparable times in the mid-2000s.

    "That’s just, like, your opinion, man. After all, a lessening crisis doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t an urgent one. We have seen a steep decline in gun violence over the past 30 years. Would The New York Times ever 'fact-check' a Democrat who argued that gun violence was an 'urgent crisis' for public safety? Of course not. This fluctuating standard allows journalists to 'fact-check' any subjective political contention they desire. If I claim that socialism is the greatest threat to American freedom and prosperity, I may well be right. I may have a lots of historical and economic evidence to back up my assertion. You can argue that I’m wrong. You can lay out statistics that attempt to prove me wrong. You can call me crazy. But you can’t produce an unbiased 'fact-check' to establishing that my opinion is conclusively false. You’re just writing an op-ed piece."​
     
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  2. TheresTheDagger

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    I guarantee you spend more time on Breitbart than I do. Not so great for your "gangsta" credentials.

    WWTD? Amirite?
     
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  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    "Partisan talking point masquerading as a fact check: 'FACT CHECK: President Trump praised the record number of women in Congress, but that’s almost entirely because of Democrats, not Trump’s party,' NPR tweeted, correcting the record on a statement that president never made.

    "Here’s what Trump said:

    “'And exactly one century after Congress passed the Constitutional amendment giving women the right to vote, we also have more women serving in Congress than at any time before. That’s great. Very great. And congratulations. That’s great.'

    "Trump was ostensibly offering his rundown on the state of the union, not the Republican Party. Most presidents take credit for all the good things that happen under their watch. In this rare case, however, Trump didn’t even take credit for electing the female politicians. In fact, he congratulated them after they broke out into cheers over the comment. Some people have argued that the NPR’s piece was providing context to the president’s comment. Perhaps. Still, their nitpicking created the impression that somehow Trump had misled the public. He did not."​
     
  4. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    "Fact-checking meant to obscure actual facts: The Washington Post’s fact-checking page offered a number of egregious examples of outright misinformation. In one of them, reporter Meg Kelly claimed that, 'Abortion legislation in New York wouldn’t do what Trump said.' There are a number of words in her post intimating that Trump lied about the New York and Virginia late-term abortion bills, but none of her words debunk Trump’s core contention. Ramesh Ponnuru has a good rundown here.

    "Here’s what Trump said:

    “'Lawmakers in New York cheered with delight upon the passage of legislation that would allow a baby to be ripped from the mother’s womb moments before birth. These are living, feeling, beautiful, babies who will never get the chance to share their love and dreams with the world. And then, we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he stated he would execute a baby after birth.'

    "As I’ve noted before, the biggest clue that you’re about to read a deceptive fact check on the abortion issue is an author mentioning that 'only' few abortions of viable babies take place. 'Indeed,' Kelly writes, 'only 1.3 percent of abortions — or about 8,500 a year — take place at or after 21 weeks, according to 2014 data from the Center for Disease Control and Prevention and the Guttmacher Institute.' This number, as Ponnuru points out, is almost surely low. Whatever the case, Trump never claimed “most” abortions were post-20 weeks. Whether 8,500 or 15,000, thousands of viable babies are being aborted. No fact-checker would ever point out that only .0001 percent of legal gun owners commit criminality when talking about more firearm restrictions (and, yes, that’s an approximation).

    "And yes, it is perhaps a bit of rhetorical flourish to say that babies can be 'ripped from the mother’s womb moments before birth' because, actually, they can be poisoned or dismembered in the mother’s womb moments before birth. Both the Virginia bill, which was tabled, and the New York law allow, just as Trump says (in his blunt language), for the termination of infants who survive the abortion procedure. Absolutely nothing in The Post’s 'fact check' debunks the president’s contention that in New York, and elsewhere, abortion on demand until crowning (and after) is now legal as long as the woman and a doctor decide that the baby is stressful in some way to the mother. How often it happens is up for debate. What the bill says is inarguable."

     
  5. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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    It was a good speech. His tone was presidential. He showed humility.

    It is not surprising the never trumpers hated it but they would hate anything trump related short of impeachment. Like many have said, they would rather the country implode than let him have any success.

    The folks who didnt like the speech should ask themselves if the country is in a worse place than it was 2 years ago.
     
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  6. CometsWin

    CometsWin Imperial cereal killer
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    Since I spend none, that would be a losing bet. You seem fixated on my music choices to a degree that you've built an entire act on it. Talk about weird. Montana doesn't offer much in the way of entertainment I guess.
     
  7. CometsWin

    CometsWin Imperial cereal killer
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    Yes. Why the entire world realizes it but you folks do not is the real question.
     
  8. TheresTheDagger

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    I'm flattered you pay attention enough to me to know where I live. I on the other hand would just prefer if you got in the kitchen and made me a sammich.
     
  9. bobrek

    bobrek Not a liberal, regardless of my posts
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    If he'd show a bit of humility in his day to day governing, the country would be in much better shape
     
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  10. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member

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    you absolutely do.

    and 90% of it isnt even your own thoughts, but rather just links to tweets, random blogs or other right-winger sites.

    really not trying to be mean, but it seems like you spend all day just looking for links to post up here. at least bobby had original thoughts of his own that he would articulate.
     
  11. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    no, I really don't

    didn't take anything you said here as mean
     
  12. TheresTheDagger

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    You should check out NewRocketsFan. NOBODY outposts other's tweets like he does.
     
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  13. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    I wasn't going to say anything . . . but

    he's right you know.jpg
     
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  14. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    and if you actually took a look at some of the stuff I post, you'd see that much of it is paywalled, so I try to help people out by providing material for discussion purposes (fair use!) that people might not otherwise be able to see, from the Wall Street Journal for example. fwiw I also read everything I post. Imagine that.
     
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  15. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    I'm going to chime in to also say that @NewRoxFan is the far-and-away champion of pasting Tweets in this forum.

    I don't mind it at all. I like it. But let's be real, the Leftist side of D&D is BY FAR more active on pasting tweets. It's not close.
     
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  16. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    Actually, it looked to me like she was reading along, and looking for where in the speech they were at. I didn't take it as any sign of disrespect, or trying to be disruptive. And I'm certainly not a big Pelosi supporter.
     
  17. CometsWin

    CometsWin Imperial cereal killer
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    His tweets tend to be news, not editorializing from blog sites and opinions from random people, Commodore style. He also debates issues frequently. There's no comparison.
     
  18. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    yeah, actually I agree with you. I didn't take it to be as distracting or offensive as others were making it out to be.
     
  19. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    I saw OAC once look down the aisle while they had the camera on her, clearly to see 'do we stand for this? or do we sit? Oh, we stand? Ok, I'll stand then'.

    Personally, I've always found this a bit stupid, even when the situation was reversed.
     
  20. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    "News" lulz. You mean "Spin." I like it though. It's useful, but certainly narrative driven.

    In this thread, pasting of tweets during a speech in real-time not much different to me than doing it in the Game Thread or Trade Rumors threads. I think it's fun. Likewise, starting threads with News and not commenting on them yourself is a common GARM and Dish thing of JR, and Carl Herrera is a champion of it in the D&D, too.

    but yeah, I'm not in D&D enough to know where the problem is, if there is one. Just saying, from my seats, this got adopted from posting styles of other forums here. D&D is serious business, I guess.
     
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