Ok, first and foremost for all the newbies lets clear it up. I am NOT a Rudy T fan. So if you feel as though Im bashing...Tough. So lately Ive been thinking. If the Rox dont succeed in making the playoffs this year where they stand with Rudy. I personally think hes done, and heres why. Four straight years of lotto balls isnt ever any good. Through the last 3 years the Rox are one step above the Bulls, around where the Clippers are, and now stand as the 3rd best team in Texas! We had some great teams that fell way short of expectations. Hakeem still in relative prime, Barkley still in relative prime, and Drexler nearing the End, produced squat. I still cant believe they started a season 22-1 and didnt make the finals, heck they didnt even finish with what 55 wins or so? Then came Pippen. Even though he was a beyotch, he was still pretty much in his prime (please guys he was) Pick up Francis, Anderson, Mo Taylor, and Eddie Griffin. Yet for all of that, we have a mayber a handful more wins than the Clipp joint does in the last 3 years? I know I know Injuries. All teams deal with them. Its not like the Rox havent had more than their share of talent the last 7 or so years. On top of this we have been mediocre to all right in drafting. Yes, I know "what about Mobley". Mobley fell to around where he was expected to be. Its not as if they Rox expected him to be this good. Kenny T had a great season, but as many of you have posted before; how hard is that on such a terrible team? Picking up Griffin was a no brainer. Yes they had the smarts to aquire what it took to get him, but If NJ says no then its a different story. But for every one of those guys we have Collier, a Bryce Drew, a Hamilton, a Washington, Rhodes, Langhi, a Turkan, a Morris, or passed on a Lewis. Weve made some horrible decisions with players too. I wont mention Pippen cause to a T at the time it was the right decision. But Rice was strictly a Rudy thing. Morris was drafted to make another player happy, never a very smart thing to do. I still think we allowed the Blazers to eat us up in the Pippen deal (I know that this is mostly Dawson, but Rudy has a great deal of say in the Org). Cato, Maloney, Moochie, Mo Taylor, and Rice all have terrible contracts that limit the Rox abilities. Yes I know, Mobley's deal does make up for it a bit. Our teams dont play D, Even when we had Dream and Barkley and Kevin Willis, we didnt rebound well. We almost always are one of the worst turnover teams, discipline is out the door. Our players show little improvements in leadership skills, or decision making. Our offense is offensive to the league. Players allowed to freelance way too much. YUCK. Yes Rudy lead us to two Titles. But Greg Popovich has a title too, any one want to call him a great coach? I dont hope the Rox to struggle. And I especially just dont want to see Rudy fail. But I feel its been way past time to make a change. When the league has to twice change rules to eliminate a persons inability to come up with a game plan that incorpoartes the values of Team, then somethings wrong with your game planning. Heypartner please oh please dont list actual moments where a Screen happened here, or a baseline give and go happened there. Around the league the Rox are considered a boring team to watch, with little reason to put them on TV because of it. We were a 45 win team with a Franchise player who got slated for one national tv spot the next year, and the fans stopped coming out. No one can tell me that they dont watch a Jazz game, a Kings game, a Lakers game, a Mavs game, or heck even a Sonics game and wish we would just incorporate some aspects of team ball. Accusations of being froze out, players complaining about camping out at the 3 point line, making young promising forwards shoot spot up J's (although I hope this changes this year) lay a foundation that goes right back to the coach. How a team with Francis, Mobley, Griffin, and Cato (its not like he is a slower Center) fails to commit at all to a fast break is beyond me. Seriously Im stunned by this. And lets be really honest. Who wasnt absolutely stunned to see the Americans struggle in the games against such power houses as France? Wasnt their situations where the other coaches seriously question Rudy too? I guess I could go on and on about this, but I wont, anymore than I have already. As one poster put it: This is it Rudy. Im tired of Ming posts. I miss some good ol (friendly) debate on the Rox. Thoughts?
I agree that Rudy will not survive another lotto season. Only one coach has survived three - Wes Unseld. However, the case you make is more a case of why Carroll Dawson should be fired than Rudy T. Rudy evaluates talent, yes, but he doesn't have final say so on all the deals. In fact, most of the draft decisions and certainly the trades are collective decsions made by the entire coaching and scouting staff. In addition, any trade (like Rice, Griffin, Pippen, Francis, etc) has Les Alexander's seal of approval all over it. It isn't even a question. Jonathan Feigen was asked about the process and he said that ALL major decisions must be pitched to and approved by Les before anything goes forward. This also includes the deals for Norris, Taylor and Cato, which Les wanted. I agree that pretty much everyone is on the chopping block this season. There is no question that, if they remain mostly healthy and still fall short of the playoffs, Rudy and CD will likely be replaced. But, if you want to lay the blame, lay it evenly. Everyone from the scouts to the GM to the owner are involved in these decisions. Rudy T's say is EQUAL to that of Les and CD, not greater than.
I agree with your assesment that I havent evenly distributed the blame to include CD. I would also agree that he SHOULD be on the line after this season too. What Im astonished to learn though is that Les is as involved as you make it sound. I understand that Les must approve all deals, and contracts, but is he as involved as lets say a Mark Cuban, a Jerry Jones, or a George Steinbrenner. I guess I always assumed that he took the advice of Rudy and Carrol for the most part. Is there ever a case where that we know where Les said no? And its not like you can fire the Owner.
I dunno... Rudy's teams have been injured more than anybody else's the last five years. Call me a Rudy apologist cause here it comes... 1996, 1997, and 1998: Major injuries(and cheating ) were all that kept the Rocks from Finals matchups with the Bulls. 1999: No training camp, rocky start. Pippen blames Rudy, the system, Charles, and HPD. 2000: Started out fantastic with Francis trade, Quitten bails out. We go from a super-talented lineup of Dream/Bark/Pip/Mobes/Francis to a still dangerous Dream/Bark/Wiz/Mobes/Francis combo. Injuries come back AGAIN as Dream and Charles are down for the count by December. 2001: Dream is never properly utilized and(yet again) oft injured..... Also, this is the debut of the Super Western Conference. Finishing above/.500 wasn't too shabby at all! 2002: Francis, Taylor, and Rice all go down early. Rocks dig reeeaaaallly big hole. Lack of talent really kills us. So really Rudy hasn't done THAT bad of a job. Meanwhile, guys like Pat Riley and George Karl have yet to do ANYTHING aside from losing in the first round to underdogs each of the past ten years and now can't even get their ultra-hyped TALENT-LADEN teams to the postseason. BUT- if Rudy fails to get this team to the playoffs: C) Ming PF) Taylor SF) Rice SG) Mobley PG) Francis Then bye bye.
You apologists must have a list next to computer just in case something like this is posted. Good lord that was too quick and too many examples. You say that Riley and Karl arent worth it, yet Karl was a few points away from a championship shot last year. A series that I feel was dictated by the refs. Not cheating, just that they might of given the Sixers way too much. Riley is gone. You know it, I know it, the whole world knows it. I believe because players arent in touch with him anymore. I think Zo subscribes to him but no one else is. But if we look subjectively do the Rox players listen to Rudy? Either they completely arent, or his game planning consists of way too many struggle to get the ball around and heave up a last second shot.
I wouldn't compare him to Steinbrenner or Jones. Cuban is too flamboyant. But, there is no doubt that Alexander has his hands in deals that happen. Feigen said that Les, Rudy and CD basically all have to agree for any deal to get done. It is very much a team decision. Also, Les is a student of the game. He is VERY interested in the basketball side of things. There is every indication that he is the person who pulled the trigger on Eddie Griffin, that he handled the Pippen and Barkley trades and that he was equally responsible for the Cato contract as Rudy and CD. I don't know any specific instances where Les has nixed a deal, but I have heard that they won't make a decision unless they can collectively agree on it and all be comfortable with it. These are all things I've read and heard, but I would say it is in Les' nature to be involved in basketball deals. He is not the type of person to sit by and watch.
Dreamshake, you are entitled to you Rudy T bashing. I do a lot of bashing sometimes so I respect it. But I will kindly disagree with you on this one. Why? you ask. because in 2000-2001 he lead the Rockets to a 45-37 mark. That is very impressive. Lets not taint that accomplishment just becaue the Rockets did not make the playoffs. Rudy got the most he could out of that team in 2000-2001 and should get more credit than he gets for it. These "Rudy T job on the line threads" make me sick. I think if the Rockets barely miss the playoffs again, he should keep his job. Let the team mature. Ming will be a rookie, and griff will only be in his second year. Give this guy a break. Last season MO T did not play a minute, Rice played in like 20 games. Francis was out for a month, and then he missed every other game with the migranes? Walt Williams played. No coach wins with that hand. And you can argue with me all you want, but Mo T is better than KT. here's a reason for that....at his best KT averaged 14 and 7,.....at his worst Mo T averaged 13-6. I'll take moT over KT anyday of the week. That my opinion, I guess I'm pro-Rudy. Lets seewhat he does with a healthy team.
After reading all of this - - - Wow - - - Lots of you want Rudy's head on a platter. Just remember players WANT to play for Rudy and he has a very positive attitude and he has worked well with the players he has had to work with. Everybody makes mistakes. How many coaches have delevered the goods in the last 12 years??? Jackson, Pop and Rudy Lakers had Shaq before Jackson and they couldn't deliver, Rockets had Hakeem for years before Rudy and could not get it done either. Rudy is a great coach and how quickly you all forget. Who are you going to bring in to replace him --- Jimmy Williams?? Hehe.
I will bet anyone of you, that if the Rockets somehow land back in lotto land, Rudy will remain head coach.
As a person, there's nothing wrong with Rudy T. But first and foremost, he's a veteran's coach, and not the best person who should be guiding this rebuilding team (even if the current coaches available don't look better). I'd fire him, bring a coach who preaches intensity, teamwork and hustle like a Larry Brown or Doc Rivers for five years, and then bring Rudy back to guide us to a championship. (the pipe dream ) His strength is by virtue making every player play above their potential with every game. But he doesn't rein in on the discipline with his players. The players do their own things, don't play D, hardly ever looks to pass, and are usually standing idly by if they aren't involved. If the team was comprised with veterans, there wouldn't be that problem since most players would already know how to do all those things (by virtue of Rudy and CD's scouting). They would be focused on playing and listening to their coach. But the Rockets are in rebuilding mode, and I've seen heartache after heartache on Rudy's face because they rarely listen to what he says when they play. His plays are so rigid that it's not really different than the days of Dream's inside-out attack. It's pretty much the same thing, but worse since the new defensive rules came out. Those rules probably lost the Rockets ten games right there. Why didn't Rudy adjust? Maybe his lineup was too thin from injuries, but those were the same plays with a healthy squad. The fact that he feels like it gets the most results for the teams makes me feel as if he doesn't have enough faith in players outside Mobley, Francis, and the power forward committee. If we draft Dunleavy, all he'll do is stand there and shoot open threes until he leaves in free agency and becomes another Michael Dickerson (barring injuries). We have a weakness at small forward because decent ones we had were egotistical nutcases but they also had the point that they were tired of standing there and hoisting up jumpers. Oh well...that's my rant. Because like other members here said, if Rudy has another bad season, the issue is moot. And even if we bring a coach who brings intensity, defence, discipline, and hustle to these young players, Stevie would probably get him fired or start crying to MJ...
I think his failure to adjust cost this team more than anything. Remember the 95 season when the rockets were pretty much as predictable as possible(see spurs) and were struggling. The team was in pretty good health, but teams were just letting hakeem get his points and slowing everyone else up. By then Horry was well Horry, Kenny Smith was scared to attack the basket and Maxwell was his usual streaky self. Instead of modifying and having multiple cutters or moving Hakeem up the lane, the Rockets had to trade for more talent in Clyde. Rudy didn't make a single adjustment, he just added a more talented player to the group and we won the title. I give him credit for getting a relatively new team together to win the title, but it wasn't by changing in his ways. Fast Forward t 2002: The new rules were set forth last yr by the time the Lakers had done in the 76ers. Really no one really liked the rules except the teams that didn't 1 on 1 players. So entering training camp and Rudy already knowing he will not have Taylor, who Thomas replaced adequately anda hobbled Rice, he refused to change the system. I hate to pull my own card, but I remember stating on this board how those rules would kill the Rockets lack of motion offense. Many people were gleaming about all the open j's francis and company would create, not realizing that teams would not fully zone Houston, just use a soft zone to cut of the driving lanes. This inability or unwillingness to chang probably cost The rockets their fair share of victories. I mean i know you have rookies, but instead of letting Frncis and company throw ally's in the 3rd row in preseason, they should hav worked on the new sets or whatever. The bottom line is , as much as i don't think his job isn't on the line, think it is. Rudy at least deserves the chance to rebound from this injury filled season. If Ming is a 14pt 7rebs 2 blk guy his first yr and we acquire a 3 in the draft or via trade, its no reason why the Rockets shouldn't be anywhere from 6-8. He just needs to get away from system players and get a system that isgood for an entire team.
This thread probably is too cerebral for an apprentice senior member first class. However, I shall proceed thusly: I can't imagine the Rockets without Rudy T at the helm. He righted a sinking ship when he took over from Don Chaney and repaired the damage done by Bill Fitch. He is, and shall always remain, a Rocket's Rocket. He inspires players and understands that players at this level cannot be micromanaged. Now, this is not to say that Rudy T. is perfect. Some months ago there were some more than reasonable posts suggesting that he acquire an offensive / defensive coordinator. Rudy T is very much like George Bush the Younger. He is a strong leader because he promotes consensus building and manages by delegation using the talents of people who could not themselves be leaders. So, Rudy T., if you are out there reading, please get a defensive/ offensive coordinator on board. No telling where you may find one. Heck, he may even be your former roommate/teammate, Calvin Murphy, aka, the Pocket Rocket.
I was ready to punt Rudy after next season if we missed the playoffs again. It's the Arafat rule: At some point, if things consistently aren't working under your authority, it doesn't matter whether the failure is "really" your fault or not. But if we draft Yao, I don't want to punish Rudy for thinking long-term. If we narrowly miss the playoffs because he's giving Yao important PT for the sake of development, I'd give Rudy a one-year pass.
I was not going to respond to this, but over simplification of complex issues really gets to me. From '96 to 1999 Rudy tried to get veteran help for Olajuwon to get one more title run. This was a deep - heavy decision. It would have brought us the fans another championship quickly for instant gratification. We gave up a lot to get Barkley. Barkley came to camp 35 lb over weight more than once. Pippen went mental on us and by complaining- made his trade value worth less. We had no bargaining power with Portland. Pippen was dead as a Rocket by his own hand. The Pippen and Barkley trades were by design to get one more run for Hakeem- that was done for the fans!!!! Pippen and Barkley's personal behavior is not Rudy's responsibility. Maloney and Rice are problems that CD should be responsible for mainly. Rudy could not help Maurice's injury. I really like Rudy and am loyal to him. He has failed to keep us up to date now in the Zone. I would love to see some help for him from a young college coach or someolne Zone oriented. I really like the way that George Karl has always used the zone effectively -remeber the Seattle trappin style of defense?? Karl has terrific problems dealing with players. I had a bad argument with a co worker about Rudy building around dream in '96 and '98. He thought that the Rockets should have immediately traded Dream after we received the trophy in '95, before we even had the victory parade. His argument being that olajuwon would have max trade value at that time. He claimed inside knowledge that Phoenix - Jerry Colangelo inquired about a trade for Dream in multiple years with a variety of deals.... I realize things would have been vastly different had Rudy and CD traded Hakeem Olajuwon in Nov. -96, blown up the team. That did not happen, and I think with injuries and other problems that Rudy has done above average. Give him this next season, and if we get in the playoffs or at least come close, give him some latitude and support. Most of all give him some help in designing a defense that can utilize the zone. I am probably the least educated poster here, but I am a true fan. If we get a new GM and coach after next year, they blow up the team, then the rebuilding process starts over. I am not ready for that....
TBar: good post. Dreamshake or anyone else: Who is this Washington character that you mention in your initial post of this thread?? Surely, it isn't Dwayne, the "Pearl"?? [size=1/8] I can just picture somebody responding with the answer and saying "and my name is not Shirley!"[/size]
You all have good points for and against Rudy, but some of you are forgetting something that is especially important. Forget injuries, forget screwed up drafts and bad trades, forget the championship years. The problem is the way the Rockets play. The apologists defend Rudy and give reasons why the Rockets didn't meet expectation in this year or that year, but the fact is the Rockets played ****ty basketball this year. I know our franchise player was injured along with other injuries. I know there were like 18 different starting lineups and it's hard to get a rhythm going when you don't know who you're playing with. There still is no excuse to how we ran our offense and defense. Offense I don't need to give specific examples. For the most part it was ugly and you all could see that fact if you watched most of the games this season. There were exceptions (i.e. the Dallas Spoiler) where the team actually scored some points, but otherwise it was downright ugly. Where was the innovation? Experimentation? We COULD use a few pages out of Sacramento, Dallas, hell even Utah's playbook. Rudy did you set plays effectively occasionally, but how many times did you see the basic pick and roll with Eddie at the top of the Arc or Steve, Cuttino, or Kenny isolated. You heard Calvin ranting about ball movement, and it's not all Moochie's fault. If people are just standing still and spaced like **** then ball movement won't do anything. I'm not going into detail about what plays we should run, that's the COACH's job...RUDY Simple out of bounds plays, fast break execution, ball movement, player movement, backdoor plays, slashing and penetrating for the dish out, successful plays were all rare sights Defense What defense? Maybe I'm hallucinating but two seasons ago we actually played defense. Last year people could score at will. Moochie is invisible and a three guard lineup to finish a game is okay sometimes for matchup problems, but it is very susceptible on the defensive end (and with an already weak rebounding frontcourt) and very predictable offensively. Why not throw in a 2-3 zone, or box and one, ANYTHING different? The problem is no innovation and experimentation makes a team with youth, speed, and potential look ugly, slow, and boring. Rudy needs to mix things up and work on his playbook. Our defense and offense need a lot of work, and I'm not sure how you can deny it. Even with Ming, (or Odom, Curry or whoever today's dreamcast is) don't expect to get very far not playing team ball.
What I don't understand, people are getting on Rudy, he has had TWO bad years since becoming head coach of the Rockets, and both years saw core players go down or banged up. In 2000, it was Charles and Dream, and having a rookie PG as the key player. Last year a good part of the year saw Francis, Mo, Rice, go down, 3 starters, and saw the other starter and #2 scorer banged up a good part of the year. He's doing a good job considering the last 3 years, injury-riddled years, were rebuilding years. I don't consider myself an "apologist", I'm just stating facts. How do you think the Kings would respond if Webber, Christie and Mike Bibby missed time? What Minnesota had to play the majority of the season without Garnett, Wally and Brandon. I guarantee the offense would look "crappy", and they would be running a bad offense, why? Because they didn't have their key line-up in there. How do you expect people to run a proper offense if you have key players rotating in and out of that line-up? This Rocket team didn't get a chance to play together. The only players who really played together were Francis and Mobley. The rest of the line-up were new people who had to come in and learn a new system. And they got hurt before they had a chance to learn the system. Our frontcourt went down, and then our franchise player went down. Again I'm asking how are you supposed to throw in "new wrinkles" and "new plays" when you're forced to use about 20 different line-up during the season?
