I'd like to start a discussion on the status of our PG situation. My apologies if you feel this thread is redundant or unnecessary. Mods please merge, if need be. I just get the vibe that most PG discussions already taking place are based upon the Lin vs. Beverley argument or hindsight comparisons to Lowry/Dragic. The point of this thread is to discuss whether or not we should look for a solution outside of the organization. Organizationally, we obviously have great depth at the position between the guys that are already dressing up and the prospects we have stashed outside of the league. That's all well and good, but for a team with about a 3 year championship window, we don't really have the time to wonder who our savior is going to be. We need a player that can help us win right now. Let's cut to the chase: we turn the ball over too much. Privately, I've always thought this; and a poster brought this up recently (I believe it was leebigez), but this team is looking a lot like the Francis/Mobley/Yao era squad that was plagued by a lack of a true playmaker. They had talent, but routinely failed in crunchtime situations due to poor decision making and turnover prone tendencies. Too much hero ball. Sound familiar? With Dwight, the turnovers are going to come and we have to deal with that. It's fine. He's a great player; he's going to screw up from time-to-time with all of the attention he receives in the post - shuffling his feet, having passes knocked away, whatever. There's nothing we can do to change that. Harden's turnovers, on the other hand, could be reduced if we had a true playmaker that could relieve him of some of the ball handling duties. With the way this squad is currently constructed, we basically have two shoot-first PG's (Lin/Brooks) and one defensive specialist with limited playmaking capabilities (Beverley). To further complicate things, both Lin and Beverley are essentially sparkplugs on opposite ends of the court. Players that typically would come off of the bench - yet we're forced to start one or the other. So what do we do? Do we roll with who we already have and simply address our other needs (backup swingman, veteran big man) or do we take a serious look at the PG trade market? Obviously, the league is already saturated with overpaid PG's that aren't as good as advertised thus making the ones that actually are worth a damn that much more expensive. I get it. But is now the time to make a play for a Rondo or Lowry type? One has to think this is a priority of DM's given the Deron Williams rumor. Thoughts?
nothing will change if Harden holds the ball most of the time. If Rando comes here, him and JH will brawl it out in the locker room. Lowry doesn't want to play for McHale. DWill might work but his contract is a pretty big gamble.
In my opinion, the three most important qualities in a point guard next to Harden are: Defense Three-point shooting Low turnovers Rondo is an elite defender at his position and a terrific playmaker, but I think his lack of a long-range jumper could be a problem.
I disagree. I don't think TOs are much of a problem, esp. since this season, our TOs seem to be of the better kind (i.e., offensive fouls or out of bounds -- while stupid, are better than the alternative of losing the ball at the top of the key and triggering a fast break). Lots of great teams are high on TOs; OKC has about as many as we do this season (15.4 to 15.7). Morey even recently stated in an interview that with the scheme and playstyle we have, he expects high TOs and isn't really that concerned (or something like that). But okay, even if we went with your premise that TOs are a huge problem...I don't think having a playmaker is the difference. Harden doesn't seem to WANT to relinquish the ball. I mean, if we had CP3, maybe he'd bow out to him on that end...but Harden loves to hero ball and iso. From watching/listening to interviews and games, I am starting to really believe that Harden ignores what McHale calls a lot of the time (and what Morey wants McHale to implement -- getting the latter in trouble haha). Lin is actually a pretty good playmaker, but on our team, he's been relegated to an off the ball shooter. That's fine -- it's what our team wants in a sense; a player who CAN make plays yet is a shooter first. That's how our team is meant to be constructed. Works better when Lin comes off the bench though since he can utilize the playmaking more. Whole point of Bev starting over Lin is we did not NEED his playmaking skills because Harden would do it. We just took Bev's shot and defense. The problem here is Harden's late game playmaking decisions, not whether there are other options...again, unless it is a star PG, I don't see Harden deferring anyways. Rondo might be enough, but Lowry certainly wouldn't be (and don't McHale and Lowry have beef with each other?).
Given these criteria, an idea fit would seem to be Kyle Lowry. He is more offensively creative than Beverley and has a more mature/stable game than Lin. As far as defense goes. It is an important quality in its own right but I am not sure getting a good defensive PG mitigates Harden's poor effort that much. Harden just HAS TO get better on D and do his job. The dude is too important to the team and too horrible on D at times that trying to hide him on that end is a fool's errant. He's been better at times, and has the physical attributes to do so. Need him to be mentally sharp and committed to becoming great every game.
Harden is our PG & guards turn the ball over more this year because we don't move without the ball as much & the guards don't get screens as much. This can cause the opposing teams defense to get set easier because of less movement, p&r, & screens. Lin is not a shoot first PG he has the best court vision & is the most unselfish PG on this team. Majority of CFs wants him to be a 6th man, which comes with a shoot first guard mentality
Rondo also eats 90% of your clock time setting up the play. It would give Howard almost no time to get a shot off and only would benefit spot up shooters. Rondo is great and I've flip flopped on him coming here, but ultimately the team as constructed (after Asik is traded) I think is the best course of action. At this point I see it more being the team and McHale (especially) need to understand how the pieces fit together.
I am with you in theory, but I think back to the Boston championship teams and wonder how different is Harden/Parsons from PP/Allen stylistically? The systems are different but I think a good player is going to be a good player no matter what.
We don't play enough D, take a look at the amount of points we give in comparison to the other top 8 teams in the WC. We are next to last right after no D Golden State. Western Conference WESTERN W L PCT GB HOME ROAD DIV CONF PF PA DIFF STRK L10 1 Portland 26 7 .788 - 13-3 13-4 5-1 14-6 109.0 102.6 +6.4 Won 2 7-3 2 Oklahoma City 25 7 .781 ½ 14-3 11-4 5-3 16-5 105.3 97.5 +7.8 Lost 2 7-3 3 San Antonio 25 8 .758 1 12-5 13-3 4-2 14-6 104.0 96.7 +7.3 Lost 1 6-4 4 LA Clippers 22 12 .647 4 ½ 14-3 8-9 4-3 15-6 104.7 99.3 +5.4 Won 1 7-3 5 Houston 21 13 .618 5 ½ 13-5 8-8 6-2 12-11 105.7 102.5 +3.1 Lost 2 5-5 6 Golden State 21 13 .618 5 ½ 11-4 10-9 6-3 15-12 103.4 98.9 +4.6 Won 7 8-2 7 Phoenix 19 12 .613 6 11-5 8-7 5-3 15-10 103.3 100.5 +2.8 Lost 1 7-3 8 Dallas 19 13 .594 6 ½ 11-4 8-9 5-2 10-10 103.3 101.3 +2.0 Won 3 6-4
This looks alot like Dennis Johnson with a 3-point shot, which would be McHale's ideal. Bev needs to develop his 3-point jumper (quicker and/or higher release) and better percentages, and he would be a fit. Lin could be a fit if he could continue to improve his shot and reduce his penetrating/attacking (assuming you want to keep his TO's down).
That data is irrelevant because of pace. Our defensive rating is 16th, which makes us middle of the pack. Traditional thought is you need to be a top 10 offense and a top 10 defense to be considered a contender. (we are 6 and 16). Just getting Asik and Beverley back, our two best defensive players, should help tremendously on defense. As for turnovers, I think Morey has hinted that turnovers are going to happen due to our style and pace of play. I am not sure that is the best focus for improvement because it seems inherent to our culture. In my opinion, all of our turnovers come from three things: 1.) Howard post ups, which isn't on anyone other than Howard. 2.) Harden drives which result in fouls not called. There is no solution there. We can't have Harden not playing aggressive. 3.) Lin's ball handling (or lack there of).
The only major problem we have at the offensive end is ball movement. Turnovers/game was not a problem at all. As matter of fact, Rockets had a better offensive efficiency when they turned the ball over more. It's when their assists/possession went down, they started losing BOTH their efficiencies in offense AND defensive!
We have a very good pg right now, his name is Lin. This team needs to run and push the ball to be at their best and Lin is the perfect pg for that. I think he needs to continue to start, and the more he plays with Howard the better they both will be. You can almost always upgrade at any position, but I don't see any reason to try and replace Lin. I like Beverley and maybe the Rockets could look at upgrading his slot as a 2nd team pg. At this time I'm happy with Beverley's play because he has a different skill set then Lin and I like that. I think the Rockets need the following, back up center (assuming Asik is gone), pf, good wing defender and possibly a new head coach (I'm still hoping Mchale will grow and learn from his mistakes). I think the Rockets pg position is the strongest position on the team because of the depth, and I'm not saying Lin is as good as Howard and Harden.
Bev gives that, but lack of play making makes this team an ISO team. In order to stick a point guard next to Harden, we need to not let Harden play point guard first.
Harden tries to sell the foul too much. Refs don't call for those in clutch and in playoffs. He needs to try to make the shots more and try less with drawing fouls. Playing aggressively does not mean trying to draw fouls all the time. When he creates contact, but refs don't call it, it's an instant turnover and because he would be complaining to the refs and slow to get back, it's almost always an easy bucket for the other team. Lin's turnovers are from trying to create shots or for teammates, and if he's trapped or jumped with no where to go, he turns it over. I don't see the TOs between the two are that different, both bad, both can be improved.
