Tristan Thompson puts up eerily similar #'s to Horace Grant in less minutes. Dennis Rodman was a role player specialist who was an amazing rebounder and defender. Those are the kind of guys you hope to find in the 2nd round. He went to his all-star games and won his awards as a member of the Pistons. He was 34, 35 and 36 years old when he played for the Bulls. Kevin Love was a lottery pick in hopes to carry a franchise. At his peak, he was just 3% short of Rodmans peak TRB% while also giving you 26ppg and great passing at his position and post play. I'd take all of that over just a rebounding and defending specialist who can't give you anything else if you're starting your team. Rodman or Green are the type of players you take AFTER you already have your first 3 options. Love was 26 when he joined the CAVS. Of course Pippen is a better all around player than Kyrie, but as a #2 Kyrie is pretty damn deadly in his own right. He's a better pure scorer and finisher than Pippen and has a clutch gene unlike Pippen. Pippen's career played out. Kyrie is 24 years old and already a 25 and 6 player. Over 3 ppg better than Pippen's peak season at 28 years old while being 1 assist shy of Pippens peak season. 87% FT shooter to Pippens 70% and 38-40% from 3 to Pippens 32% You want to compare HOF Pippen to 24 year old Kyrie but Kyrie is going to be a future HOFer sidekick himself who brings a different game than Pippen in an offensively driven league. Kukoc and JR Smith similar careers - 1 SMOTY each. 1 more athletic and better and more clutch 3 point shooter, the other tall and better passer and post player. Kerr and Korver nothing but 3 point specialist role players, except Kerr played in a league where 3's weren't used as much. Kerr a career 45% 3 point shooter while taking just under 2 a game(his 2 peak season came with the short 3 point line). Korver at 43% while taking almost 5 a game. Korver actually made an All-Star game and has been a starter half of his career. Kerr started in just 30 career games. Bench is not even worth discussing, clearly in favor of the CAVS. Seeing as how Horace Grant and Rodman didn't play on the same team for the Bulls, and the Cavs have both Tristan and Love on the same team plus Kyrie and their SMOTY and a better bench, i don't see how you can't simply tell this CAVS team is better from top to bottom than any Bulls championship team. The Warriors have 1 player that was supposed to be a franchise star and leader in Durant. Curry, Klay and Dray all exceeded FAR beyond any expectations they had and didn't even accomplish anything until Draymond became a starter so who is to say Curry or Klay or Draymond would even lead teams to anything more than Love or Kyrie were able to do on their own? LeBron, Kyrie and Love were all expected to be franchise players the moment they were drafted. You guys want to complain about it not being fair? The Warriors built their team through the draft and signed 1 MVP. The CAVS bought their entire team since obviously Kyrie, Wiggins used to trade for Love and Tristan T wouldn't be on the CAVS if Lebron never left to go get his easy rings with Wade and Bosh. A bench full of starter material and 2 former all stars and a 6moty bought via mostly buyouts(not counting another former #1 pick starting defensive anchor Center that started for the 73 win Warriors and was hurt in the Finals and unluckily broke his leg when he played his first game as a CAV buyout). And they still blew the Anthony Bennett draft. I said it last year when everyone rooted for them like they were good guys and the Warriors were the evil team. Warriors deserve it much more than the Cavs. Warriors built their team the right way, and which team in the history of the NBA would say no to Durant wanting to join up? You better believe LeBron would welcome Durant with open arms if they had the CAP. But, we all know if that happened, people would still make excuses for LeBron. This is tiring though. I'll just bow out of this thread and any other LeBron thread till the Finals are over. It's the same story over and over. LeBron needs more help no matter how many stars you give him. The reality is of course that the CAVS have just 1 less MVP candidate than the Warriors and the rest of the team is pretty even, but LeBron alone as the best in the league more than makes up for that 1 less MVP caliber player. Hell, he's a 5 time winner on his own. Of course the Cavs will make this an interesting Finals b/c they are that good and when they do, all the talk will be about how LeBron is GOAT for doing it all by himself...with no help. This is the narrative that's been pushed forward and everyone is eating it up. The Cavs might as well be the Sixers against the Warriors with the way the media and Vegas odds is making it seem, so that when CAVS come back and win, it will be a massive story and big time money maker in Vegas and the GOAT talk begins. This is nothing new though. Media and LeBron fans have been tearing down LeBron's teams and teammates since he came into the league while building up every other GOATS role players to seem like superstars. Enjoy the Finals. Rockets suck.
Pippen and Rodman did not look flashy on paper next to Mike but they did their parts to perfection and someone like Kerr was a cherry on the cake.
I don't understand how this is a point of contention, in general. The NBA is a business. Owning a team is a business, and making decisions that affect the success of your business, is paramount. So why is it wrong to buy/sign a known commodity, but wholesome/pure to build through the draft? If you were in charge of a team/company, would you rather spend money for a known commodity (i.e. Rockets signing James Harden, Spurs signing LMA) or would you rather hope that who ever you draft turns out to be everything you wanted? I'd rather have the known commodity. Heat knew what they were doing when they got LeBron and Bosh. Celtics knew what they were doing when they got Garnett and Allen by trading away future picks. Otoh, Warriors got lucky that Curry was able to fine-tune his mechanics, so that his glass ankles turned into ones of steel. You can also say that Warriors got lucky Draymond evolved to the player he is today. And the most important thing allowing the Warriors to retain their core, is Curry's unbelievable contract. Granted, I think he signed the extension back when his ankles are shot, but it allowed them cap flexibility. The jealousy for the Warriors last year, wasn't out of hate; it was because they were so damn good, and every team wanted to have players with their skillset. The jealousy for the Warriors this year, is out of hate. And it is completely warranted.
Also forgot to mention that if Draymond doesn't get ejected the Warriors more then likely close things out and thus LeBron could have been looking at 1 and 7 in the finals.
Lol the what if game is fun. If the NBA doesn't shorten the 3 point line in the 90s, maybe MJ doesn't complete his three peat and they don't end up with 6 titles. I love how people do their best to discredit LeBron. Let the man be great.
If anything, Pippen and Rodman in today's game would still be nightmares. They could guard all positions and with the lack of "true centers" you could run Rodman at 5 all day.
I hear ya. He is great. This is a fan forum and this is one place you can play the "what if" game. Wasn't trying to tear down LeBron's greatness. Just pointing out how narrow a margin things can sway.
Oh shut the hell up. The Warriors are most talented team I've ever seen. Lebron is just facing a better team. How stupid is this notion after last season.
Actually if POP had this team (Cleveland), the series might be competitive, just look at what he was able to do with the full Spur squad, but unless someone get hurt, Lebron has no shot at beating the Warriors.
1998 Chicago Bulls (62-20) 4-2 Utah Jazz (62-20) 1997 Chicago Bulls (69-13) 4-2 Utah Jazz (64-18) 1996 Chicago Bulls (72-10) 4-2 Seattle SuperSonics (64-18) 1993 Chicago Bulls (57-25) 4-2 Phoenix Suns (62-20) <--- ** 1992 Chicago Bulls (67-15) 4-2 Portland Trail Blazers (57-25) 1991 Chicago Bulls (61-21) 4-1 Los Angeles Lakers (58-24) ** - Only year it could be argued that Jordan did not have the better team going in. At least not the best record. They tied Utah in 1998. So for the most part . . . Jordan's team were always the favorites. 2007 San Antonio Spurs (58-24) 4–0 Cleveland Cavaliers (50-32) * 2011 Dallas Mavericks (57-25) 4–2 Miami Heat (58-24) 2012 Oklahoma City Thunder (47-19) 1–4 Miami Heat (46-20) * 2013 San Antonio Spurs (58-24) 3–4 Miami Heat (66-16) [93] 2014 San Antonio Spurs (62-20) 4–1 Miami Heat (54-28) * 2015 Golden State Warriors (67-15) 4–2 Cleveland Cavaliers (53-29) * 2016 Golden State Warriors (73-9) 3–4 Cleveland Cavaliers (57-25) * 2017 Golden State Warriors (67-15) 2–0 Cleveland Cavaliers (51-31) * Did not realize how many times LeBron's teams were NOT the Winningest team in the finals. So technically not the favorites Rocket River
Lebron is an enormously incredible player. Best all-around player in this series. When Durant is on like he's been, he is one of 3 players that can cancel out Lebron. (One of them plays on his own team, Steph Curry. Harden is the other one). That leaves GS with 3 All Stars including Curry against rest of Cavs. Not much shame in losing to that team. It will hurt Lebron's legacy not adding another ring. He might not make another Finals again in his later years. But superteams are the trend HE STARTED. So he's getting burned off his own creation
Uh what? Maybe you forgot Jordan+Pippen+Rodman? That's not a super team? Celtics big 3? Celtics Big 3 v2? Lakers with Gasol, Kobe, Odom, Bynum, Artest? I mean let's be real here the NBA has been dominated by super teams. I don't understand why Lebron is being credited for making super teams when superteams have existed before he even played in the NBA. Don't give me that crap about how he created it via FA whereas others were traded and drafted by GMs. Who cares how they were created? That Celtics team with KG, Pierce, Allen, Perkins, Rondo, Mike James and Browne were still a super team by any standard.
The series isn't over yet but I think Golden State may become the first team to go undefeated in the playoffs this season. As much as I dislike Lebron, I wouldn't call him a choker in this instance because this Golden State team may very well be the best in league history. I'm not even sure teams like the 96' Bulls or 86' Celtics would win more than a game or two in this series considering the current rules in the NBA. Maybe the 86' Celtics would stand a chance because they could play well from the perimeter but the 96' Bulls team would foul out before halftime because you're not allowed to play physical defense anymore.
Start a 1vs1 Curry vs Kyrie Irving Lebron vs Durant Draymond vs Love Winner takes it all - Much more fun format ensued.
That would be interesting to see if Jordan goes for 60 against GSW and would he still win? Probably not.
